Topic: Classic car prices

[lynxd67]

Despite the article on the B-J, which is very well written and which I applaud, it has to be said that prices of the right cars, even in private sales, are seriously on the up. My subject is Jaguars and about 10 years back a C type was $450,000 and a D type about $1 million at today's exchange rates but not those of the time; less in dollars at the time. Last year gasps went around when a dealer sold Jim Clark's Border Reivers D type for £1.5 million, now about $2.8 million. That now looks like peanuts; a private D type with no real history has just sold for £1.5 million ($2.8 million) but the staggering news is that the Ecurie Belge yellow short nose 1955 car changed hands last week at £2.4 million - that's over $4.5 million. It finished 3rd at Le Mans that year then was sold to Chicago and raced at Elkhart Lake, Walterboro, Lawrenceville and Beverley but then retired into obscurity for many years. This being a short nose car, one of 56 made, imagine what one of the Ecurie Ecosse or works long nosed cars would fetch now! Only 11 made of which 4 were scrapped or used for spare parts. Someone is bidding prices up and it raises the spectre of 1990/91 all over again. Is this speculation or genuine aficianados buying their dream? What do you think?

[MG]

Hell, I just want a Pacer in nice condition.   

Fun and funky cars. 

[Arthur Dent]

I'm a budget/beater classic man myself but everytime one of these crazy amounts come up it seems to a have a ripple effect and soon everyone with a beat up Spitfire thinks it gold 

[Stephen M]

Someone is bidding prices up and it raises the spectre of 1990/91 all over again. Is this speculation or genuine aficianados buying their dream? What do you think?

Tough question. One could go broke trying to time the commodities or housing market, much less the collector car market.

If I had to bet, I'd say it's not purely speculation, though there's some of that going on, no doubt. Given the rise in muscle car prices in particular, I'd say a lot of it is coming from baby boomers buying themselves retirement gifts, the cars they dreamed about as kids- 60s cars and such. I'm sure they'll be bumps and corrections down the road, but I suspect the overall upward trend will continue without any major crash in the near future. How's that for a weasel answer? 

That having been said, here are my personal collector car crash warning signs:

1) A Testarossa or Countach sells for > 100k

2) A Delorean or 850i sells for > 25k

3) The same car sells at auction for more than $1 million three times in the same year

4) California, ever with our best interests at heart, refuses to license for road use any vehicle more than 30 years old.

Okay, so I'm only half serious with this list. But #4 isn't outside the realm of possibility, and would deal a big blow to the market for these automobiles. Food for thought.

-Stephen M

[MG]

Here in Vo Disland, there is a climate controlled garage built 25 years ago or so to house a particular model of Ferrari. The owner bought it for half a million, built the garage to preserve his investment, which was bruited among the cognescenti to soon be worth 2 million or more. Last I heard, he's still waiting and the car has never once been out of the garage, for fear that some misadventure might befall his "investment." 

Myself, I would much rather have a real car that I could drive in the real world rather than an assortment of trailer queens that get hauled from auction to auction. I have better things to do with my life than dusting universal joints and polishing the numerals on the instruments.

But then again, the only art I have ever spent any actual money on has used black velvet as the canvas.......

[Rich]

I had a buddy in LA who disassembled his "vintage" Ferrari and had it all shrink-wrapped...true story....

[MG]

And the people bowed and prayed, to the neon god they'd made.
And the sign flashed out its warning, in the words that it was forming.
And the sign said "The words of the Prophet are written on the subway walls....tenement halls."

[Rich]

You're such a hippie...it's all over the web that there are no such thing as poor people and that money is, in fact, God.  Get with the program, please.

[MG]

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars 


 

And making at least SOME attempt to connect to the theme of the thread (albeit a small one), does anyone else see the humor in the name of the most popular auction being "BJ"?  I mean, what are the odds, huh?   

[Rich]

I read a while back that the market itself has gotten to the point where all collectibles have likely been found/restored and resold, most never to be driven further than across the auction stage again in their lives.  What's the likelihood that the dude that bought Shelby's Supersnake is going to take that pup to the track and kick it in the ass a bit?  My bet?  Slim....and that's too bad.  It's the same w/ lots of other stuff too, though.  My nicest guitar is literally a "collectible" and would have been worth more in dollars had I put it in a case and not let anyone touch it, much less look at it (Spinal Tap anyone?).  I'm glad it's scratched, got wear-marks all over the fretboard, and has provided me with the hours of playability and tone that its designer and builder promised upon its conception and construction.  I believe that if I buy a Chevelle LS-6 and use it as a paperweight....I'm stupid.

[MG]

Well, rich. Not enough REAL cars out there?  Fear not. Market forces have solved your dilemma!   

More proof that the end of the automotive world as we know it is nigh........

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Are you a car enthusiast? Have you ever dreamed of going to a high end car auction in Los Angeles or New York and laying down a 500 hundred thousand dollar bid on a rare vintage care you’ve always wanted? Well now with near limitless customization options you can tweak your ride to your hearts content, then ship it over to Forza Motorsport 2’s new virtual auction house. Where you can see how much virtual money your creation is worth to other aficionado’s. In a recent press release Microsoft Gaming Studios announced Forza 2’s new feature, along with a few others, to be released with the game when it hits store shelves this May.

“Forza Motorsport 2 can be a highly competitive affair over Xbox Live, the developers at Turn 10 wanted to further stoke the passion of the racing community by giving them an in-game marketplace to show off their custom creations...The Online Auction House will encourage fans to share their unique whips, or complete their car collection from our roster of over 300 must-have rides.”

Is Forza setting itself up for disaster with it newest game play addition? Now that cars can be traded for in game points, will it go the way of MMO's like World of Warcraft where users regularly pay black market sites in real world cash for in game items or gold? If so, we wonder how Microsoft and Take 10 would deal with the phenomenon of trading virtual goods for real world money? Take 10 or Microsoft hasn’t released any statements as to what their policy will be if a black market pops up for Forza goods and cars. Microsoft has always been tough on piracy and file swapping so it will be interesting to see where they stand on this issue if it develops.

Other features and announcements mentioned in the press release where: Wave two of the highly anticipated car list which included models from car makers such as European carmakers: Aston Martin, Jaguar, Bentley, Lotus, TVR, Saab, Volvo, McLaren, and more. Design updates to Forzamotorsport.net in order to make the site more accessible to consumers who want to extend their game play experience with news, screen shots, videos, and a place to talk about the racing world.