Wendax 888 - The Sablatnig airplane companion

Wendax · May 01, 2013, 02:45:23 AM

This car is unknown to me. It looks as if it was built for the special purpose of pulling that collapsible airplane on the bottom picture. Who knows more about it?

For one point, please respond and identify this car.

grobmotorix · May 01, 2013, 05:13:12 PM

Most interesting but I do not even have a faint idea...

sixtee5cuda · May 01, 2013, 05:37:27 PM

German?

Wendax · May 02, 2013, 02:03:43 AM

Yes

Wendax · May 02, 2014, 02:32:02 AM

Open for all

D-type · May 02, 2014, 06:36:48 AM

Is it possible to read the word on the fuselage on the original picture? I can make out Luft ... but not the rest.

nicanary · May 02, 2014, 06:48:08 AM

Quote from: D-type on May 02, 2014, 06:36:48 AM
Is it possible to read the word on the fuselage on the original picture? I can make out Luft ... but not the rest.

I think it says Luftwerke, which suggests that there should be another word in front of it, i.e. the name of the plane maker.

Wendax · May 02, 2014, 07:00:50 AM

Alright, one point on offer for the puzzler who can identify the airplane and the airline, as there is a possible connection to the car. (And that is all I know about this car.) Another point for the harder task of identifying the car which is unknown to me.

grobmotorix · May 02, 2014, 01:55:38 PM

Is the plane a Fokker?

Wendax · May 02, 2014, 03:30:05 PM

No

Majeko · May 30, 2014, 01:51:03 PM

The plane is a Sablatnig Sab P3 from 1919. Written on the side is Luftverkehr Sablatnig. No information on the car (yet). It is possible it was built and designed by Hans Seehase who designed the aircraft. I found some information that he designed built a small car in 1921.

Wendax · May 30, 2014, 02:47:06 PM

Yes, the Sablatnig plane might be the only trace there is. This brings you one point.

Quote from: Majeko on May 30, 2014, 01:51:03 PM
I found some information that he designed built a small car in 1921.

http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=23058.0

I keep the puzzle open, as the car isn't identified yet.

Majeko · May 30, 2014, 05:18:12 PM

Could it be an AGA? They we're build in Berlin at the same time as the Sablatnig.

Craig Gillingham · May 30, 2014, 05:53:09 PM

The car looks proportionally correct for a bebe Peugeot, but I can't find a photo of this exact car, or any bebe coupes at all.

4popoid · May 31, 2014, 01:31:34 AM

Now that the aircraft has been identified as a Sablatnig Sab PIII, I have been able to locate THE photograph. The site where I found it says it was taken in 1919 (apparently one of the very first PIIIs), so that rules out many of the common small chassis. Although I have no photographic proof, I'm inclined to think that the car is a prewar model, perhaps specially modified for aircraft towing. Unless the people in the picture are very tall (which I doubt), this must be a very small car. Because of this I would think the car is something like a 1914 Westfalia 6/16, or perhaps a 1912 Colibri (not Sperber) 6/16. Perhaps someone can provide proof that one of these, or a similiar vehicle, is the puzzle car.

grobmotorix · June 19, 2014, 12:30:18 PM

I found a good hi-res version I have scanned long time ago, but my source also did not mention any details:

4popoid · June 19, 2014, 04:33:00 PM

I have been thinking that Craig was likely correct with his Peugeot Bebe guess. However, after studying grob's very welcome close-up, I have convinced myself that the mystery car is more likely a: Wanderer W2 Model N (two seats side by side, rather than the Model H with two seats in tandem) "Puppchen" from 1913/1914. Both the Bebe and the Puppchen arise from a design by Ettore Bugatti, and hence are similar in size and appearance. But, after examining grob's enlargement, the windshield detail and hood/cowl interface lead me to believe this is a Wanderer. Also, it seems to me that a Wanderer would be more likely to have been seen in Germany in 1919 than a Peugeot.

Of course this is only speculation, as I have no proof, but perhaps my comments will provoke further fruitful thought, just like grob's enlargement did for me.

grobmotorix · June 28, 2014, 05:38:29 AM

I have found a 1913 photo of a Peugeot Bebe limousine - I think the puzzle car is still a bit smaller:

Craig Gillingham · June 30, 2014, 02:40:07 AM

I'm not getting a lot of support for my Bebe Peugeot theory. I realise that the photo isn't the best, but I'm sticking to my suggestion. The rear mudguard is identical, as well as the 1913-14 front guard. Peugeots were sold in Germany before WW1, the German Allright car even had a Peugeot engine. The version of Bebe Peugeot I'm thinking of is the BP1, made from 1912-16

grobmotorix · June 30, 2014, 11:45:49 AM

One week ago at Het Loo councours d´elegance I saw this Bebe - it IS tiny.
So now I think you may be right...

Wendax · September 30, 2014, 02:12:06 AM

Waiting in the Black Hole for definitive proof.

grobmotorix · April 02, 2017, 07:16:03 AM

I just learned that the original construction was the Bugatti 855ccm 10 HP type Bebe.

It later was the basis for the Bebe Peugeot.

Maybe the puzzle car even could be that tiny 1911 Bebe Bugatti?

grobmotorix · January 04, 2023, 05:44:29 PM

Another photo of our mystery car together with a Sablatnik KE1 airplane. No other news about the car though...

Wendax · January 05, 2023, 03:24:02 AM

grobmotorix · January 05, 2023, 10:41:28 AM

I have scanned this photo from a book now - this is the best resolution I can offer - I still go with the Bebé option.
Compare the proportions - the wheels are a bit smaller than at the survivor car - maybe the wheels on the car are the same as those on the airplane?
However the steering wheel position, the hood and even the high headlights near the windshield really look identical in my eyes.

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Wendax 888 - The Sablatnig airplane companion