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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2018 => Topic started by: Wendax on September 10, 2011, 01:18:32 PM

Title: Solved: Wendax 345 - Umba 4/14 PS
Post by: Wendax on September 10, 2011, 01:18:32 PM
I think this is a tough one. The picture is from a period magazine. I haven't found anything about this car anywhere else, but perhaps you have.

For one point, please respond and identify this car.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: pnegyesi on September 10, 2011, 11:50:05 PM
Is it based on a Grade?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on September 11, 2011, 03:21:50 AM
In fact, I don't know. In the contemporary article there is no connection mentioned. But for sure it was inspired by the Grade.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: whcgt on September 27, 2011, 04:58:32 AM
From 1906 or 1907...with the popular upturned fender styling. ;)
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on September 27, 2011, 03:19:03 PM
From 1906 or 1907...with the popular upturned fender styling. ;)
No, many years later
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: whcgt on October 09, 2011, 09:28:52 PM
1917 Bartholomew Co. Glide-CeHa(Cadillac House) speedster ???
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on October 10, 2011, 02:29:43 AM
No
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: grobmotorix on October 13, 2011, 08:19:24 AM
What a sweet rear enginged (german?) cycle car oddity.

My first thought was Grade, too, of course, but there were myriads of small companies in the late 1910´s and 1920´s.

Was the company situated in or ca.50km around Berlin?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on October 13, 2011, 08:30:01 AM
It is German, but it was produced more than 50 km away from Berlin.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Otto Puzzell on October 13, 2011, 10:15:59 AM
Is it an Arimofa, built by Ari-Motorfahrzeugbau GmbH of Plauen?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on October 13, 2011, 10:18:02 AM
Not an Arimofa
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Otto Puzzell on October 13, 2011, 10:19:42 AM
Spindell?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on October 13, 2011, 12:03:08 PM
No
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on December 14, 2011, 01:52:43 PM
Here's a part of a contemporary ad. Just as if it was built to be a puzzle car  ;D
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on December 20, 2011, 03:01:52 AM
Looks rear engined.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on December 20, 2011, 03:02:42 AM
Max Ell from Stuttgart? (Auto-Ell)
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on December 20, 2011, 03:04:28 AM
Rear engined, but not Max Ell
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on December 20, 2011, 03:06:49 AM
From the period 1920-25?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on December 20, 2011, 03:11:29 AM
Yes
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on December 20, 2011, 03:27:12 AM
existed for more than one year?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on December 20, 2011, 03:30:35 AM
I don't know as I only have a contemporary source and couldn't find it mentioned anywhere else. My guess would be that it only existed for a very short time.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on December 20, 2011, 03:39:08 AM
1924?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on December 20, 2011, 03:58:50 AM
Yes
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on December 20, 2011, 04:01:14 AM
Leichtauto?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on December 20, 2011, 04:02:54 AM
No
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: grobmotorix on January 07, 2012, 12:56:55 PM
Is it a BZ (Bootswerft Zeppelinhafen) Kleinwagen with a BMW motor cyle engine?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on January 07, 2012, 02:54:47 PM
No
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Arunas on January 07, 2012, 04:44:30 PM
Dehn?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on January 07, 2012, 04:49:30 PM
No
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Arunas on January 07, 2012, 04:57:04 PM
Fama?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on January 07, 2012, 05:13:15 PM
No
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on May 24, 2012, 04:28:30 AM
Open for all
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on May 24, 2012, 04:38:58 AM
not very likely but let's have a try: Böhler?
Quote
Der deutsche Ingenieur Fidelis Böhler und der Konstrukteur Carl Pollich stellten 1924 einen Kleinstwagen mit 10 PS starkem 500-ccm-Heckmotor auf die Räder
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on May 24, 2012, 04:41:50 AM
Sorry, no connection with Böhler
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on May 24, 2012, 04:48:05 AM
"Welches ist der Wagen..?" apparently they weren't that familiar with German grammar.


From the Eastern part of Germany?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on May 24, 2012, 04:51:39 AM
Not from the Eastern part of Germany
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on May 24, 2012, 06:33:04 AM
North of Frankfurt a. M. ?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on May 24, 2012, 06:51:34 AM
Ja
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on May 24, 2012, 06:56:38 AM
From a coastal state?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on May 24, 2012, 07:04:53 AM
No
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on May 24, 2012, 07:06:33 AM
NRW?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on May 24, 2012, 07:09:13 AM
No
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on May 24, 2012, 07:18:01 AM
HH?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on May 24, 2012, 07:23:39 AM
Yes, from Hamburg
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on May 24, 2012, 07:31:32 AM
HABAG?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on May 24, 2012, 07:35:48 AM
No
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on May 24, 2012, 07:41:01 AM
I'm running out of HH cars from 1924, so here's my last guess on this motor:
Quote
Automobile der Marke Mikromobil wurden von 1921 bis 1924 in Hamburg-Wandsbek produziert. Hersteller war die ursprünglich als Automobil-Gesellschaft Thomsen KG firmierende Mikromobil AG. Es gab einen 4/18 und einen 6/18 PS; ihre Vierzylindermotoren waren Zweitakter. Ein weiteres Auto hatte einen 9 PS leistenden Einzylindermotor, konstruiert von einem Ingenieur namens Schoch.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on May 24, 2012, 07:50:43 AM
We had a Mikromobil before. No connection to this one.

As I said before: apart from my contemporary source, I didn't read anything about this car in the last twenty years. It must have escaped the historians so far.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on May 24, 2012, 07:58:34 AM
We had a Mikromobil before. No connection to this one.

As I said before: apart from my contemporary source, I didn't read anything about this car in the last twenty years. It must have escaped the historians so far.
Amazing!  :sigh:  ;)
The more so because it has a quite unusual appearance with its mid/rear-engine configuration. I'm curious about what it is.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Arunas on May 24, 2012, 10:40:56 AM
Maybe it's named Sauer...
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on May 24, 2012, 12:25:27 PM
No, it's not.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on May 24, 2012, 01:09:56 PM
A look at the engine
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: grobmotorix on May 25, 2012, 04:15:58 AM
Basic engineering at its best...
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: pnegyesi on May 26, 2012, 10:36:55 AM
BFA?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on May 26, 2012, 03:30:40 PM
No
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: pnegyesi on May 26, 2012, 11:17:10 PM
Wiking?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on May 27, 2012, 02:14:14 AM
No, Wiking was located at Flintbek near Kiel, not in Hamburg
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: pnegyesi on May 27, 2012, 02:34:55 AM
I don't know where it was located, I was just looking at my notes from a 1924 magazine.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on May 27, 2012, 02:37:32 AM
I was just giving additional information  ;)
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on May 30, 2012, 01:40:12 PM
A wild guess and probably wrong: Keitel Luftstromwagen?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on May 30, 2012, 01:56:09 PM
Not Keitel, which BTW was built in Wasseralfingen
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on August 27, 2012, 04:15:48 AM
It has finally arrived in total darkness.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: GrahamClayton on August 29, 2012, 02:14:36 AM
Minimus?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on August 29, 2012, 02:16:33 AM
No
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: grobmotorix on August 31, 2012, 04:21:06 PM
Is it a Dehn?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on August 31, 2012, 04:23:42 PM
Dehn was built in Hamburg, too, but this puzzle car is something else.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: grobmotorix on August 31, 2012, 04:49:23 PM
Mikromobil?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on August 31, 2012, 05:28:09 PM
No
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: kwgibbs on December 09, 2012, 04:25:12 PM
amphibious at all ?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on December 09, 2012, 04:26:22 PM
Not amphibious
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: grobmotorix on December 10, 2012, 02:59:12 PM
Is it a Badenia?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on December 10, 2012, 05:41:05 PM
No
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: grobmotorix on December 13, 2012, 06:36:05 PM
Kruse?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on December 14, 2012, 01:39:00 AM
No
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: grobmotorix on December 17, 2012, 04:31:07 PM
Nafa?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on December 17, 2012, 04:54:44 PM
No, the marque is not mentioned at wikipedia.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: grobmotorix on December 21, 2012, 03:02:33 AM
I do not know if it is mentioned in Wikipedia, but my final guess for this is "Sauer".
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on December 21, 2012, 03:07:36 AM
It is not a Sauer, sorry.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on December 21, 2012, 03:10:32 AM
So the question remains:
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: pnegyesi on March 02, 2016, 03:40:58 AM
Is your contemporary source a magazine focused primarily on cars?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on March 02, 2016, 03:54:47 AM
No
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: pnegyesi on March 02, 2016, 03:59:53 AM
can you help me just a tiny bit and tell me something about your contemporary source? Is it a sporting magazine?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on March 02, 2016, 04:17:11 AM
Its focus was on engineering.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: pnegyesi on October 10, 2016, 12:50:08 PM
It's not in the VDI zeitschrift. General engineering?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on October 10, 2016, 02:08:41 PM
So, this is still the only source for this car? Amazing!
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on October 10, 2016, 02:54:01 PM
Yes. There are a few very ephemeral mentions of the company out there, that don't go beyond its pure existence. The car itself is not mentioned on the web or in any book I know.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: pnegyesi on October 10, 2016, 02:56:48 PM
"It's not in the VDI zeitschrift. General engineering?"
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on October 10, 2016, 03:03:04 PM
It is not from the VDI Zeitschrift.

The publication was a weekly one about engineering.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on October 10, 2016, 03:57:43 PM
Regional magazine or published nationwide?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on October 10, 2016, 04:08:23 PM
regional
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Allemano on October 10, 2016, 04:14:18 PM
I guess from the Hanseatic region
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on October 10, 2016, 04:26:51 PM
Yes
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: pnegyesi on October 12, 2016, 04:14:40 AM
was it published in Hamburg?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on October 12, 2016, 04:38:57 AM
Yes
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: pnegyesi on October 12, 2016, 02:30:46 PM
hmm, I am a bit stumped. The title doesn't have the following words: ingeniure, technik, verkehr, industrie, metal, motoren. I don't have any idea of its title
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on October 12, 2016, 02:41:01 PM
The German language can be versatile. May be not as much as Hungarian, but enough to keep you entertained.  ;D
A derivative of one word in your list is part of the title.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: pnegyesi on October 12, 2016, 02:51:10 PM
I tried technisches but no. Does it have anything to do with industrie?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on October 12, 2016, 02:57:12 PM
Technische is part of the publication's title.  ;)
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: pnegyesi on October 12, 2016, 03:07:56 PM
You mean, Hamburger technische Rundschau?
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on October 12, 2016, 03:35:56 PM
Yes!
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: pnegyesi on October 12, 2016, 03:49:06 PM
well, that's bad news. It's only available in a library in Leipzig and I don't plan to go there. But it may appear in a digital library at some point.
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: pnegyesi on September 24, 2018, 02:06:15 PM
There is a long list of things I'd like to do at the Deutsche Nationalbibliothek this week. One of them is a small attempt to identify some of the Black Hole cars.

And I have my first victory. This is the Umba Kleinauto with a 770 cc 4,4/14 PS engine by the Umba Auto AG (Hamburg 23 Pappelallee 41-43). If Wendax doesn't publish the article, I'll scan it tomorrow
Title: Re: Wendax 345
Post by: Wendax on September 24, 2018, 03:15:49 PM
 :applause: :thumbsup: :applause: :thumbsup: :applause:
Doctor rerum automobilium strikes again! After more than seven years this puzzle is solved, although this car isn't mentioned in any book I know. Rarely ever were two points well deserved as these.

The article below as well as the first ad are from July 25, 1924, the second ad is from August 8, 1924. The company was founded on October 17, 1923.
Title: Re: Solved: Wendax 345 - Umba 4/14 PS
Post by: Allemano on September 25, 2018, 07:34:59 AM
Congratulations Pal, that was one of the toughest ever! I'm wondering how many of these were built.
 :applause: :applause:



Wo
Title: Re: Solved: Wendax 345 - Umba 4/14 PS
Post by: pnegyesi on September 25, 2018, 08:21:34 AM
Staatsarchiv Hamburg holds several papers related to Umba Auto. I am trying to get copies of those.

Oh, and Wendax, this was a great idea - this magazine had lots of interesting articles on one-off or unknown cars over the years. But no, I will not post those as puzzles :)
Title: Re: Solved: Wendax 345 - Umba 4/14 PS
Post by: Wendax on September 25, 2018, 08:43:30 AM
Why not?  :)
Title: Re: Solved: Wendax 345 - Umba 4/14 PS
Post by: pnegyesi on October 13, 2018, 12:51:02 PM
A letterhead

The name "Umba" came from Ing. Curt Umbach, who was one of the founders.
Title: Re: Solved: Wendax 345 - Umba 4/14 PS
Post by: Wendax on October 13, 2018, 12:52:15 PM
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Solved: Wendax 345 - Umba 4/14 PS
Post by: Wendax on November 30, 2023, 04:18:50 AM
Mentioned in the 1923/1924 edition of the Handbuch der deutschen Aktiengesellschaften, the next year it couldn't be found there anymore: