Author Topic: Ubb93 1949 Bugatti - type and bodywork still to be solved (Read 6876 times)

mekubb · « **Reply #25 on:** May 19, 2013, 01:34:32 PM »

Not Amilcar nor Hotchkiss.... What's left ?

D-type · « **Reply #26 on:** May 19, 2013, 01:37:39 PM »

Talbot
Delage
Delahaye
Salmson
Peugeot
Amilcar
Hotchkiss

It doesn't look like one, but is it a Bugatti?

mekubb · « **Reply #27 on:** May 19, 2013, 03:19:19 PM »

Quote from: D-type on May 19, 2013, 01:37:39 PM

Talbot
Delage
Delahaye
Salmson
Peugeot
Amilcar
Hotchkiss

It doesn't look like one, but is it a Bugatti?

Yes Bugatti it is ! Quite a special one I must admit. Locked for you to come with the right year. And an extra point if you know the coach builder (I don't)

D-type · « **Reply #28 on:** May 19, 2013, 04:02:03 PM »

The chrome decoration on the front wings shows this was not an out and out racing car but a road car competing in a minor event - maybe a hillclimb.
At a guess it is a rebodied type 53 four-wheel-drive car.

If I'm wrong, please unlock it as I'm just guessing.

mekubb · « **Reply #29 on:** May 20, 2013, 03:13:15 AM »

I don't know the type, just that it's a Bugatti and the year. But if you take '53 as year

then you are a couple of years out, so one more guess for you !

D-type · « **Reply #30 on:** May 20, 2013, 07:12:37 AM »

53 was the type number.

For a date I'll guess at 1949

nicanary · « **Reply #31 on:** May 20, 2013, 11:07:42 AM »

D-Type, I've just sent you a PM.

I can't get it out of my head that it looks like a young Jack Lemon Burton at the wheel. The moustache and general "joie-de-vivre" looks for all the world like a British driver - many British and American military staff got hold of exotic European sports cars just after the war and took them home. Maybe this is Germany or Austria.

I've just been through the Bugatti archives to look at every chassis recorded for the sort of car it could be, but there's nothing. So it's a rebody without doubt. I reckon it's a 57S or 57SC for what it's worth.

mekubb · « **Reply #32 on:** May 20, 2013, 11:35:32 AM »

Quote from: D-type on May 20, 2013, 07:12:37 AM

53 was the type number.

For a date I'll guess at 1949

1949 is the right year, so a point for you. I know 53 is the type number but I tried to help saying that if 53 was the year that it was too young.

Quote from: nicanary on May 20, 2013, 11:07:42 AM

D-Type, I've just sent you a PM.

I can't get it out of my head that it looks like a young Jack Lemon Burton at the wheel. The moustache and general "joie-de-vivre" looks for all the world like a British driver - many British and American military staff got hold of exotic European sports cars just after the war and took them home. Maybe this is Germany or Austria.

I've just been through the Bugatti archives to look at every chassis recorded for the sort of car it could be, but there's nothing. So it's a rebody without doubt. I reckon it's a 57S or 57SC for what it's worth.

The only thing I know is that the pic was taken during a speed challenge, probably in Switzerland. I would be very interested to hear who was responsible for the bodywork, a Swiss coach builder or may be a fine home-made job ? I will leave the topic in the Pro section, may be they can help

nicanary · « **Reply #33 on:** May 20, 2013, 06:55:26 PM »

I think it is unlikely to be a Type 53 - only three were built, and it was specifically a car for racing and hillclimbs. It had 4-wheel drive and was notoriously difficult to steer. It would not have made a pleasant road car. The steering wheel position on the puzzle car is very high, and I'm sure that this is an earlier road car which has been rebodied in a more modern style, but has retained the existing running gear which has resulted in the driver sitting very high up on the chassis.

faksta · « **Reply #34 on:** May 21, 2013, 07:18:05 AM »

The car behind looks like a 1.5-liter AFM. We could follow two strings then. I'd make two suggestions coming from that. First is that the event, given the year, was likely to be held in Germany due to the fact that until 1950 German drivers were banned from racing abroad (Hans Stuck drove an AFM abroad under the Austran license, but his car was a single seater AFAIK). Second, the Bugatti was probably of around the same engine displacement to be able to compete with that AFM. My choice woud be T40 probably, but that's a pure guesstimation so far.

faksta · « **Reply #35 on:** May 21, 2013, 08:07:12 AM »

I have another idea now, though. As far as I understand, this AFM might be the car sold to Swiss Peter Hirt for 1949, therefore making it possible that this is a start of a Swiss hillclimb indeed or some international event.

nicanary · « **Reply #36 on:** May 21, 2013, 08:52:08 AM »

Quote from: faksta on May 21, 2013, 08:07:12 AM

I have another idea now, though. As far as I understand, this AFM might be the car sold to Swiss Peter Hirt for 1949, therefore making it possible that this is a start of a Swiss hillclimb indeed or some international event.

It certainly looks a lot like the ex-Falkenhausen car. I have taken up enquiries with the Bugatti Trust, and hope they don't mind me bothering them. We may have an answer in the near future - on the other hand they might think I'm a crazy stalker and ignore my e-mail.

faksta · « **Reply #37 on:** May 21, 2013, 09:10:13 AM »

Hillclimbs in Switzerland in 1949 that I could find online are these:

20.03.1949 - Passwang (won by a production Ford, though...)
20.06.1949 - Rheineck - Walzenhausen - Lachen
17.07.1949 - Develier - Les Rangiers
24.07.1949 - Freiburg / La Sonnaz
13.08.1949 - Gstaad
21.08.1949 - Maloja Pass

Might have been more.

SACO · « **Reply #38 on:** May 21, 2013, 09:33:34 AM »

Not Hillclimbs ,but " flying kilometers " !

faksta · « **Reply #39 on:** May 21, 2013, 09:59:11 AM »

They were referred to as 'bergrennen', weren't they?

mekubb · « **Reply #40 on:** May 21, 2013, 10:32:46 AM »

I have found the original pic including the Swiss licence plate (attached), may be someone has access to the Swiss register. BL stands for Basel-Land as far as I know. Furthermore the photo is said to be taken during a 'Kilometre lancé' or 'Fliegende Kilometer' somewhere in Switzerland. And the body might be from a Swiss company or individual, but this is just a good guess.

All in all quite an intriguing car, would love to hear its history.

faksta · « **Reply #41 on:** May 21, 2013, 10:43:49 AM »

Looks quite similar to the starting place of Alstetten-Schlieren events which I could find.

nicanary · « **Reply #42 on:** May 26, 2013, 05:10:50 PM »

The Bugatti Trust have e-mailed me to say that they can't access the image - I thought guests could see these, but maybe it's because it's in the Experts section. This could all end in failure !

mekubb · « **Reply #43 on:** May 26, 2013, 05:57:23 PM »

Quote from: nicanary on May 26, 2013, 05:10:50 PM

The Bugatti Trust have e-mailed me to say that they can't access the image - I thought guests could see these, but maybe it's because it's in the Experts section. This could all end in failure !

I have sent you a PM with the pic, may be you can forward it to the Bugatti Trust ! Thanks !

nicanary · « **Reply #44 on:** May 30, 2013, 08:25:37 AM »

I have just heard from the Bugatti Trust - it's not good news, since they could find nothing in their photographic and written archives. I have thanked them on behalf of the Autopuzzles Forum for their efforts. This could be a Black Hole candidate.

mekubb · « **Reply #45 on:** May 30, 2013, 11:23:26 AM »

Thanks for your effort ! I will keep it in the Pro section for a while and finally Black Hole... (hope not though)

mekubb · « **Reply #46 on:** October 14, 2013, 08:34:44 AM »

Heading for the Black Hole....

GrahamClayton · « **Reply #47 on:** November 02, 2024, 08:50:28 PM »

Graber, Hess, Mose or Regazzoni?

mekubb · « **Reply #48 on:** November 06, 2024, 03:23:41 PM »

As mentioned earlier, unfortunately I don't know who is responsible for the coachwork.

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Author Topic: Ubb93 1949 Bugatti - type and bodywork still to be solved (Read 6876 times)