Author Topic: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)  (Read 4344 times)

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Offline Wendax

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Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« on: June 03, 2012, 04:31:43 PM »
Another batch of cars unknown to me, probably all German or Austrian again. #5 seems to be a little bit larger than the other ones. Have fun!

One point each for correct identifications, which have to be proven.
Points will be awarded immediately when earned.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 12:42:22 PM by Wendax »

Offline Otto Puzzell

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2012, 05:38:14 AM »
A tough one!
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Online Oguerrerob

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2012, 10:24:51 AM »
Prewar cyclecar enigma 2.- I knew I'd seen this one:
Here a first of the fabulous collection of unidentified cars from Berlin based car historian Thomas Ulrich who visited us at the Paris Retromobile. Check this young fellow taking his first practice in a sturdy three wheeler of unknown origin. As the photo is German, that is the first country of manufacture to think of. On sheer visual judgement we presume it has a rear mounted aircooled engine. The vintage is a gamble, but we think early twenties. You may know and we are looking out for your opinion.

It's not an answer, there are two guesses:
Update IV by Thomas Ulrich: It's certainly no Diabolo. They where quite similar to the Morgans. I think it's a Mollmobile, even if they had normally four wheels, but otherwise they are quite similar.
Update III by editor Rutger Booy: I have my doubts about this car being a Diabolo. They were based on the Morgan and had a V-twin front-mounted Motosachoche engine. This car has clearly a mid-mounted kick-start engine.
Update II: best headline by Mark Nugent of Nugent Coachbuilding
Update by Wim van Rooijen: "I think that it is a German "Diabolo" produced between 1922-1927. Diabolo Kleinauto A.G Bruchsal"

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2012, 11:49:38 AM »
Prewar cyclecar enigma 6.- Looks like Mollmobil III

Offline Wendax

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2012, 01:29:56 PM »
Prewar cyclecar enigma 2.- I knew I'd seen this one:
Here a first of the fabulous collection of unidentified cars from Berlin based car historian Thomas Ulrich who visited us at the Paris Retromobile. Check this young fellow taking his first practice in a sturdy three wheeler of unknown origin. As the photo is German, that is the first country of manufacture to think of. On sheer visual judgement we presume it has a rear mounted aircooled engine. The vintage is a gamble, but we think early twenties. You may know and we are looking out for your opinion.

It's not an answer, there are two guesses:
Update IV by Thomas Ulrich: It's certainly no Diabolo. They where quite similar to the Morgans. I think it's a Mollmobile, even if they had normally four wheels, but otherwise they are quite similar.
Update III by editor Rutger Booy: I have my doubts about this car being a Diabolo. They were based on the Morgan and had a V-twin front-mounted Motosachoche engine. This car has clearly a mid-mounted kick-start engine.
Update II: best headline by Mark Nugent of Nugent Coachbuilding
Update by Wim van Rooijen: "I think that it is a German "Diabolo" produced between 1922-1927. Diabolo Kleinauto A.G Bruchsal"
I know that site. It is definitely not a Diabolo as you can see by comparing it with the Diabolo pictures at AutoPuzzles: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=16700.0
I don't know any mention of a Mollmobil threewheeler. The Mollmobil is covered quite well in German car literature, and they all write about a fourwheeler only. 

Offline Wendax

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2012, 01:32:49 PM »
Prewar cyclecar enigma 6.- Looks like Mollmobil III
The Mollmobil was a tandem seater, which this one isn't. The proportions are different, too. Compare http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=4856.0

Offline Wendax

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2012, 02:41:23 PM »
I was able to identify enigma #6 by looking through old magazines. It is definitely not a Mollmobil.

Offline Wendax

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2012, 01:05:25 PM »
I was able to identify enigma #6 by looking through old magazines. It is definitely not a Mollmobil.
I decided to separate #6 from the ones still unknown to me.
It can be found here now: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=21966.new#new

Offline pnegyesi

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2012, 04:57:56 AM »
I found a 1925 ad for the Borcharding which I will post later today. I think car no4 is a Borcharding
https://rareandunique.media - Rare&Unique Vehicles magazine
http://magyarjarmu.hu - detailed Hungarian motoring history (Hungarian language)
http://automuseums.info - motoring museums' guide

Offline Wendax

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2012, 05:05:40 AM »
I'm looking forward to it.  :thumbsup:

Offline pnegyesi

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2012, 05:15:06 AM »
Made with a phone-camera, but I hope it is still visible
https://rareandunique.media - Rare&Unique Vehicles magazine
http://magyarjarmu.hu - detailed Hungarian motoring history (Hungarian language)
http://automuseums.info - motoring museums' guide

Offline Wendax

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2012, 05:54:50 AM »
Thank you very much for sharing the Borcharding drawing.

Having looked through my books I found that the Borcharding was an unmodified continuation of the Mollmobil. (Before that they built a three-wheeler I don't know a picture of.) I have attached a Mollmobil ad by Borcharding with the same drawing I happened to find right now by Google search.

I don't think #4 is a Borcharding or Mollmobil, because a characteristic feature of the Mollmobil was the absence of an Ackermann steering. It had a primitive pivot steering. Puzzle picture #4 shows a connection between the front axle near the wheels and the rest of the car. This rules out a pivot steering. Further on it seems to me that the axle is located more up front than the one of the Mollmobil.

Keep your eyes open. Some day we will find out...  ;)

Offline GrahamClayton

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2012, 08:14:06 AM »
Is #2 a circa 1923 Mops?
"She's a beauty!" - Australian Prime Minister describes the first 48-215 Holden to come off the production line in November 1948

Offline Wendax

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2012, 03:18:36 PM »
Is #2 a circa 1923 Mops?
I don't know what it is, but I know that it is not a Mops, because that one looked different: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=13656.0

Offline Wendax

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2013, 09:37:28 AM »
One year without another guess  :(

Open for all now.

Offline Wendax

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2013, 01:18:05 PM »
I added a new #6 which looks quite spectacular. Any ideas, guys? I don't know anything about it.

Offline Wendax

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2014, 02:01:22 PM »
#4 is a repost. I'm sure that it is another Baja Cyclecar: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=21966

Offline Wendax

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2014, 01:42:02 AM »
Into the Black Hole

Offline Wendax

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2016, 04:23:51 PM »
Another picture of enigma car 3:

Offline Fёdor

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2017, 04:30:44 PM »

  Herz-Schroter Bijou 3,5ps Cyclecar

Offline Wendax

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2017, 05:07:22 PM »
 :doh: I even posted it as a puzzle myself: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/2012-41/solved-wendax-676-herz-schroter-cyclecar

Two well-earned points for opening my eyes.  :)

Offline Wendax

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2017, 05:16:59 PM »
Solved so far:

#1:
#2:
#3: Herz & Schröter Bijou
#4: Baja Cyclecar
#5:
#6:

Offline Fёdor

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2017, 01:56:46 PM »

 Many thanks for the points.

 #5: very similar to Koco 5/25ps.

Offline Wendax

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2017, 03:27:58 AM »

 Many thanks for the points.

 #5: very similar to Koco 5/25ps.
Similar, but not the same I think.

Offline Fёdor

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Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2021, 09:18:24 AM »
#5: Luwo 1923