Topic: Solved - NEH 5048: Maserati 150S/200S pictured at Fittipaldi Veic. & Eqip., San Paolo

[tobytwirl]

This is extraordinary - a Ferrari that looks like a Maserati but is fitted with a sidevalve engine - it is a version of the Ford flathead. It looks like a competition car, but has those unique bumpers, so presumably it's a road car. And it is in Brazil .... so presumably we are looking at the three people who own it or rebuilt it. Is its story on the Net somewhere?

[dracu777]

One would think that a car with such unique history  would be in many Ferrari books. Is this chassis lost to history and the world?

[Carnut]

This is extraordinary - a Ferrari that looks like a Maserati but is fitted with a sidevalve engine - it is a version of the Ford flathead. It looks like a competition car, but has those unique bumpers, so presumably it's a road car. And it is in Brazil .... so presumably we are looking at the three people who own it or rebuilt it. Is its story on the Net somewhere?

Yes, the picture and story came from the 'Net.
With the value of Ferraris these days you would think it would be known about, certainly.  Maybe it is in Brazil..

One would think that a car with such unique history  would be in many Ferrari books. Is this chassis lost to history and the world?

I agree.  It may be that this car (one of two) disappeared many years ago so the story has not been properly documented.  I don't know.  Once it's fully solved one of our Brazilian members might be able to enlighten us.

[dracu777]

Here's what I've found.

Photo was taken in Sao Paulo. From left to right there is Ary Leber, Ricardo Divila and Adu Celso.

I am going by what Google has been able to translate for me, as the site is in Portuguese.

"The photo is 40 years old and it makes me miss it, it was the year that marked the life of many "machine worshipers" including those in the photo, in a dark shirt I am Ary Leber, light shirt and pants patched Ricardo "Ingles" Divila, Sitting in the car Adu Celso. No one was famous yet, but everyone was happy because they did what they liked best. The photo was taken in front of Fittipaldi Veic. And Equip. In Carlos Klein Street in Socorro neighborhood in São Paulo, it was during the design and construction of the Fusca Bi Motor, and what few people know is that Adu, who was a friend of Emerson's, was a partner in this car, and was there accompanying the construction. The car was a Ferrari belonging to a collector who can not remember the name, and according to him, it was one of the two cars brought to Brazil by President Vargas for Chico Landi, the engine disappeared so he used a V8 engine from the Simca Chambord, the Rest all original. I do not remember what the model is so the puzzle continues ..."

I would love to hear if there is anything else known about this chassis.

[nicanary]

Richard Divila was a well-known designer of the Fittipaldi F1 cars, as well as working for Ligier.

[tobytwirl]

Having finally found the picture on a blog site (in portugese) I see it is already causing controversy in Brazil. One issue seems to be the identity of the three, with Nelson Piquet being a possible candidate, along with Bernie Ecclestone! However many dispute the story, pointing out for example that President Vargas died in 1954 and the car looks later. The following response is Bing translated:

'THIS is a MASERATI 200S, who was with a MOTOR FORD with 3 8BA CARBURETORS. BELONGED TO THE NOW-DECEASED FRIEND GRANMDE, DR. FLAVIO MARX by SOME 15 YEARS, and then me and the CHILDREN of FLAVIO, SELL to a FRIEND of MINE who LIVES in AMERICA, JAY. THE CAR WAS FULLY RESTORED THERE, PLACED THE ENGINE AND OVER MASERATI, TAKEN THIS SCOOP OF CAPO, PAINTED RED WITH SILVER INTERIOR (ORIGINAL), AND AFTER A MONTH, IT WAS REPAINTED WITH THE COLORS USED IN BRAZIL, YELLOW WITH A GREEN CENTRAL STRIPE. EVEN I HAVE PHOTO OF THE CAR OF THE TWO COLORS, THERE IN THE US TODAY THE CAR LIVES IN CALIFORNIA AND "ROARS" LIKE YOUR AUREOS TIMES!!!!'

[tobytwirl]

Further research on the Will Stone Historic Cars site talks about 56 Maserati chassis 2408 with photos of a yellow and green car:

'The following year Gomez-Silva acquired a 300S and 2408 like many other European sports cars residing in South America ran in various mixed grid races in the late Fifties until it was rested in a museum in Sao Paolo for many years until being sold in 2004.

 The present owner, on acquiring 2408, commissioned renowned Maserati restorer Steve Hart to return the car to its specification from Buenos Aires in 1957 with the stunning yellow and green livery.'

No mention of a Ford or Simca engine mind you.

[Carnut]

The plot thickens..
There was much diverse opinion on the blog, but since there was an answer from one of those actually sitting in the car, which gave the location of the photo as well, I figured that was most likely the right answer so have based my puzzle on that.  I now it looks for all the world like a late 50s Maserati 200 or 300, but you would think the guy in the photo would know exactly what it was.  But of course memory plays tricks and who knows... Someone will, somewhere.
I'll give the second point to dracu777 as his answer is exactly what I have been looking for.
But if someone proves that answer wrong they can earn a point as well!

[nicanary]

The plot is even thicker. Apparently the car started out as a 150S chassis #1662, owned by Guido Perella, who had returned the car to the factory for repairs when Maserati had an urgent order for a 200S from Severino Gomez Silva - so they updated the old chassis as a 200S #2408 and shipped it to Brazil. The original 150S was built in 1956, the renovated 200S completed in 1957.

That's Will Stone's version. Quite honestly, that's par for the course for Officine Maserati in those days. Just ask any number of privateer 250F owners who were sold a supposedly "new" car and found unusual chassis stamps on hidden parts. Wheeler-dealer Maserati.

I can't add any more for the time being, but I wouldn't be at all surprised that the flathead was fitted to keep the car on the road after an expensive blow-up. Pukka Maserati parts would have been expensive and hard to come by in Brazil in the 1970s.

[Carnut]

I guess I'd better change the title..
Why on earth was Celso (sitting in the car) so adamant it wasn't a Maserati but a Ferrari I wonder..

[nicanary]

I guess I'd better change the title..
Why on earth was Celso (sitting in the car) so adamant it wasn't a Maserati but a Ferrari I wonder..

I don't think what we've collectively unearthed is absolute proof. Anyone got one of those very expensive Maserati chassis history books?

PS I've just read another blog about Dr. Marx' collection of classic cars - it includes a cutting from Classic & Sportscar 1997  in which Mick Walsh describes the hoard, and mentions that it is rumoured that a Maserati 300S is hidden amongst it. So presumably locals have known about this car, and it certainly points towards it being a Maserati rather than a Ferrari (there was a Ferrari Inter 166 or 212 in the collection, but it was a closed car). We've all been saying it looks more like a Maser, but the more I look at it, the more I think the whole body is new - the shape of the wings isn't standard Fantuzzi, and the nose is longer.

[mekubb]

According to the Orsini/Zagari book chassis #1662 was a 150S in the colour red built April 27th 1956. And #2408 was a 200S from September 29th 1956 delivered in yellow with a green stripe. The puzzle photo looks red, so could be the 150S, but of course nothing is certain.....

[dracu777]

This is quite a conversation piece. I love it. Thank you for the point Carnut.

[nicanary]

According to the Orsini/Zagari book chassis #1662 was a 150S in the colour red built April 27th 1956. And #2408 was a 200S from September 29th 1956 delivered in yellow with a green stripe. The puzzle photo looks red, so could be the 150S, but of course nothing is certain.....

Does the book give a short history for each chassis? According to the restorer, they are one and the same car.

[Djetset]

I know the Maserati that Nicanary has illustrated at Goodwood quite well, and to the best of my (and Goodwood's) knowledge, this S is quite original.

As an interesting aside, when the Puzzle photo was supposedly taken, Fittipaldi's Company had just begun tuning and modifying the local-produced Fiat 147 models (and went on to tune local Brazilian Chevrolet Omegas, etc.), so this car was quite a contrast to their mainstream activities! 

[nicanary]

I know the Maserati that Nicanary has illustrated at Goodwood quite well, and to the best of my (and Goodwood's) knowledge, this S is quite original.

As an interesting aside, when the Puzzle photo was supposedly taken, Fittipaldi's Company had just begun tuning and modifying the local-produced Fiat 147 models (and went on to tune local Brazilian Chevrolet Omegas, etc.), so this car was quite a contrast to their mainstream activities!

I have a growing feeling that there are 2 Maserati 200S cars which have been restored in Brazilian colours, and time and fading memories have caused old-timers to get confused. Is the photo I posted the ex-Marx car, which is claimed to have been restored in the US, or is it another car altogether?

PS ignore all of this. It IS the ex-Marx car, purchased from his estate by Jay Felter, sold on to Scott Rosen who had the car restored, and it has been in the UK for 10 years, as Djetset points out. Will Stone claims it started out as a 150S, so will we ever know, and more to the point, is it even our puzzle car?

[mekubb]

According to the Orsini/Zagari book chassis #1662 was a 150S in the colour red built April 27th 1956. And #2408 was a 200S from September 29th 1956 delivered in yellow with a green stripe. The puzzle photo looks red, so could be the 150S, but of course nothing is certain.....

Does the book give a short history for each chassis? According to the restorer, they are one and the same car.

Some chassis numbers are mentioned separately but not 1622 or 2408 unfortunately