AutoPuzzles - The Internet's Museum of Rare Cars!
Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2021 => Topic started by: Wendax on October 30, 2021, 02:13:21 AM
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Hiding behind the tree.
For one point, please respond and identify bus and coachbuilder.
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up
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Burghardt B 4000 or B 4500 by Kässbohrer.
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1. You should deactivate the autocorrection!
2. One letter missing after the B
3. Locked for you
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Borgward BO 4000 or BO 4500
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Yes, I think it is a BO 4000.
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I have a little bit doubts, that this is a Borgward..
See picture attached
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There are different books, wich descripes this bus as Borgward.
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Sorry to bother you, but your statement hardly can overrule another proof
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No possibility that there is a mistake in your source? In my sources there is only one Kässbohrer Magirus with this bodywork, but it has a bonnet like the original Magirus "Alligator"-bonnet. Should also be necessary because of the air cooling. Otherwise there are only Borgwards with this bonnet.
@Wendax: Thanks for the point, I forgot it this afternoon.
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Sorry, please read my answers correctly: I never said my source will be the only correct one. But it is the only proof we have to this puzzle in the moment. I severly trust in your exorbitant bus knowledge, but only another proof can convincingly confirm the result of the puzzle. No need to be offended, but I'm only interested in confirmed results. Even if one source may be wrong, not just guesswork. That's the only reason, why I am playing this game. Not for even pointless points, as I have often proclaimed before..
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I feel the same as you, I want to get to the bottom of questions. And if there are contradictions, discrepancies we will try to clarify this. No more, no less, no offence.
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This is definitely a Borgward BO 4000 by Kässbohrer:
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Too bad my puzzle picture is too fuzzy and fromwien's picture is too small to identify the logo above the radiator grill. It might be a Kässbohrer-K. The wheels are no help either as they were used on Borgwards and Magirus as well.
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Thanks for the picture of the Borgward BO 4000 by Kässbohrer. I have the same in my library. I totally agree, that this one, on the picture you have sent, is a Borgward BO 4000 by Kässbohrer.
But there is more than only a big difference to the picture, I've sent before: This shows exactly the puzzle car!
Please check the differences of the lower bodywork
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Is there any proof available with a picture of exactly the puzzle car, which describes it as a 'Borgward BO 4000 by Kässbohrer'?
(..as 'sichel' mentioned before: 'There are different books, wich descripes this bus as Borgward'..)
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There is no doubt that your picture shows the puzzle bus. I just find it very strange that there is no visible Magirus-M on it which usually is very prominent on 1950's Magirus-Deutz trucks and buses regardless of the coachbuilder. And looking at other 1950's buses bodied by Kässbohrer I can always see the chassis builder's logo at the front.
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Front logo
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once more
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I think, these pictures show clearly, that it is not a 'Borgward-Logo' on this hood, or am I wrong?
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@fromwien: I must have expressed myself in a misleading way. The puzzle bus is not part of my sources. But there are three different Kässbohrer-BO 4000 looking exactly like it. The same bodywork, same bonnet, same side vents.
For comparison, here is the Magirus O 3500 mentioned above.
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I think, these pictures show clearly, that it is not a 'Borgward-Logo' on this hood, or am I wrong?
Not Borgward, but I have troubles identifying the Ulmer Münster either. I have added the Magirus option to the title and given you a point, too. Perhaps it is the smallest and most bended Magirus-M I have ever seen on a Magirus O 3500. Hopefully we will find a definite answer some day.
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Meanwhile 'sichel' has posted a picture of another Kässbohrer-Magirus, which shows the same lower bodywork-configuration (depending side openings), as the puzzle car has. In comparison to the Kässboher-Borgward totally different!
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I think, these pictures show clearly, that it is not a 'Borgward-Logo' on this hood, or am I wrong?
Not Borgward, but I have troubles identifying the Ulmer Münster either. I have added the Magirus option to the title and given you a point, too. Perhaps it is the smallest and most bended Magirus-M I have ever seen on a Magirus O 3500. Hopefully we will find a definite answer some day.
I guess, the paint job should represent the 'Ulmer Münster'.. but this is only a guess, without proof..
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Here another Kässbohrer BO 4000
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I think, these pictures show clearly, that it is not a 'Borgward-Logo' on this hood, or am I wrong?
Not Borgward, but I have troubles identifying the Ulmer Münster either. I have added the Magirus option to the title and given you a point, too. Perhaps it is the smallest and most bended Magirus-M I have ever seen on a Magirus O 3500. Hopefully we will find a definite answer some day.
Here is another similar Magirus-Deutz bodied by Kässbohrer. Does it help ?
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Are you sure that it is a Magirus?
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It is labeled as such in an article about the Heinz Bröskamp bus company. As this is independent from the other source I think the identification as a Magirus-Deutz is correct, and Kässbohrer used the identical design for different chassis, with a small as possible logo for the chassis supplier.
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To further substantiate the thesis that the puzzle vehicle is a Magirus-Deutz with Kässbohrer bodywork:
1) A picture of exactly the puzzle car, which is called Magirus Deutz (which for inexplicable reasons whether the correctness is massively doubted)
2) Another picture showing a Magirus Deutz with a very similar Kässbohrer bodywork (which for inexplicable reasons whether the correctness is again doubted)
3) Two pictures of the Magirus Deutz O3500 bus chassis, which clearly show where the tank and the tank filler neck are located. Namely just behind the front entry
..not in the back, just in front of the rear wheels, as with the only verified Kässbohrer-Borgward.
A picture of the Borgward BO 4000 chassis would be very welcome, which may finalize a discussion, which would be worthwhile much more often on 'AutoPuzzles-website', if greedily collecting points wouldn't spoil the fun.
But only on a factual level please, which I unfortunately miss sometimes
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Here is a Borgward chassis, but BO 4500, not BO 4000. And I wonder how meaningful the location of the tank is. To relocate it at the customer's request is really not the problem. See the picture of "Asten-Express"
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Thank you so much for the picture of the Borgward chassis. Me too, I only have a picture of the BO 4500 chassis, unfortunately none of the BO 4000.
I agree with you. Of course, every individual customer request can and could be met. But that never gets the rule. You just have to think about what a different mounting of the gas tank could improve. In my opinion absolutely nothing. Except for additional and unnecessary effort. In order to achieve a goal-oriented result, firstly the norm-case has to be considered. The individual solutions have to put aside.
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I think, these pictures show clearly, that it is not a 'Borgward-Logo' on this hood, or am I wrong?
Not Borgward, but I have troubles identifying the Ulmer Münster either. I have added the Magirus option to the title and given you a point, too. Perhaps it is the smallest and most bended Magirus-M I have ever seen on a Magirus O 3500. Hopefully we will find a definite answer some day.
Here is another similar Magirus-Deutz bodied by Kässbohrer. Does it help ?
Sorry, have forgotten before to add this proof to 'pguillem's' picture of the Kässbohrer-Magirus