Topic: SOLVED: si_512 - Dürkopp - by Dierks & Wroblewski - Offenburg

[sichel]

Please name manufacturer and coachbuilder. Unfortunately, my source does not give the type designation. I already have an idea, but let's clarify this question when the basic task has been solved.

[sichel]

Up to the Experts.

[sichel]

Up to the Professionals.

[ropat53]

Dürkopp with body by Dierks & Wroblewski.
As it has a three exhaust manifold it's a six cylinder, so I'd guess it's a 1923/26 Typ P 12 (12/45 HP).

[Fёdor]

 Dürkopp by Dierks & Wroblewski 1925 ?  Typ P8b 60ps ?

[sichel]

Yes, it's a body from Dierks & Wroblewski. And therefore a point for ropat53, he was the first
About the Dürkopp model: The exhaust manifold and the length of the bonnet point to a six-cylinder P12 12/45 PS. Fëdor, how did you come up with the P8B 60 PS?

[fromwien]

In my database the car appears as a "Certus" from 1927/28 (whenever the radiator emblem looks like "Dürkopp")

[Wendax]

It clearly is a Dürkopp and looks very much like the left car in this picture: https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/2013-42/durkopp-p-82-sport-roadster-1924/msg386651/#msg386651
Very charactreistic for Dürkopp cars of that age is the air inlet between engine bay and passenger door: https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/2022-54/wendax-3747/msg573054/#msg573054

Certus cars and the Certus badge looked completely different:
https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/2016-45/wendax-2031/msg416237/#msg416237
https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/2017-47/wendax-2390/msg448252/#msg448252

[Fёdor]

Thank you!

[sichel]

@ Wendax: Do you have an idea about the type of puzzle car?

[Wendax]

My guess would be a P8, but I am not sure.
The pictures of the P12 I know show a longer bonnet with much more air vents. But the three exhaust manifolds can't be ignored. 

[Fёdor]

My guess would be a P8, but I am not sure.
The pictures of the P12 I know show a longer bonnet with much more air vents. But the three exhaust manifolds can't be ignored. 

I agree, a sporty option is possible

[fromwien]

In my database the car appears as a "Certus" from 1927/28 (whenever the radiator emblem looks like "Dürkopp")

It clearly is a Dürkopp and looks very much like the left car in this picture: https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/2013-42/durkopp-p-82-sport-roadster-1924/msg386651/#msg386651
Very charactreistic for Dürkopp cars of that age is the air inlet between engine bay and passenger door: https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/2022-54/wendax-3747/msg573054/#msg573054

Certus cars and the Certus badge looked completely different:
https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/2016-45/wendax-2031/msg416237/#msg416237
https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/2017-47/wendax-2390/msg448252/#msg448252

I agree with you "Wendax", that Certus bodywork and badge look completely different to the puzzle car.
Now everybody involved in this puzzle feels unsure, which type of Dürkopp this is.
The picture caption of the puzzle car photo by "auto,motor and sport" says, "Certus-Autobauer Franz Wroblewski bei einer Testfahrt (Certus car manufacturer Franz Wroblewski during a test drive)"
Is it absolutely unthinkable that this is a Certus prototype with Dürkopp bodywork, because the new Certus-bodywork wasn't yet available? And Dierks & Wrobelewski were representatives for Dürkopp automobiles and could take spare parts off the parts shelf?

[Wendax]

I don't think so. Compare it with the Dürkopp mentioned above: https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/2013-42/durkopp-p-82-sport-roadster-1924/msg386651/#msg386651. Even the exhaust manifold is the same.

Even what' probably the source of the auto motor sport article (Offenburger Tageblatt) just says:
"Auch Werner Hogenmüller aus Offenburg meldete sich nach unserem Aufruf. Seinen Vater, Franz Xaver Hogenmüller, habe mit Franz Wroblewski eine enge Freundschaft verbunden. Wohl daher stammen zwei bemerkenswerte Aufnahmen, die vermutlich Testfahrten mit allerersten Certus-Modellen auf staubiger Piste zeigen – auf einem Bild ist der Pkw gar noch »halb nackt«."
(The picture was owned by Werner Hogenmüller whose father was a friend of Franz Wroblewski. The pictures might originate from there and probably show a Certus test drive.)

[fromwien]

I don't think so. Compare it with the Dürkopp mentioned above: https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/2013-42/durkopp-p-82-sport-roadster-1924/msg386651/#msg386651. Even the exhaust manifold is the same.

Even what' probably the source of the auto motor sport article (Offenburger Tageblatt) just says:
"Auch Werner Hogenmüller aus Offenburg meldete sich nach unserem Aufruf. Seinen Vater, Franz Xaver Hogenmüller, habe mit Franz Wroblewski eine enge Freundschaft verbunden. Wohl daher stammen zwei bemerkenswerte Aufnahmen, die vermutlich Testfahrten mit allerersten Certus-Modellen auf staubiger Piste zeigen – auf einem Bild ist der Pkw gar noch »halb nackt«."
(The picture was owned by Werner Hogenmüller whose father was a friend of Franz Wroblewski. The pictures might originate from there and probably show a Certus test drive.)

Again I agree with you. That's why I started the discussion.
I also never found a Certus-6-cylinder-model, only four- and eight-cylinder-versions. And only the Dürkopp 12/45 P12 as a six-cylinder

[ropat53]

When I saw the three exhausts I jumped to the conclusion that it was a six cylinder engine, but now after all that was added and further research I think it may be a 4 cylinder P8, there are 4 cylinder engines with three exhaust  manifolds. Just as an example attached is an Oldsmobile engine.

[fromwien]

  Yes, exactly! One siamesed exhaust port could be a indication for a 4-cylinder engine