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Author Topic: SOLVED - si_029 - Henschel - II-6500 - Drögmöller - Heilbronn - 1951  (Read 1925 times)

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Offline sichel

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SOLVED - si_029 - Henschel - II-6500 - Drögmöller - Heilbronn - 1951
« on: July 09, 2021, 02:38:17 PM »
Diesel-engine is missing. Who was the manufactorer of the chassis? Who built the body and when? Where was it used? One point for four answers.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 02:00:05 PM by sichel »
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline sichel

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Re: si_029
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2021, 07:19:10 AM »
Do experts know more?
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline Alfa_Japan

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Re: si_029
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2021, 03:42:54 PM »
Italian made but used in Germany?
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Offline sichel

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Re: si_029
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2021, 04:55:15 PM »
No, not at all.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline Alfa_Japan

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Re: si_029
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2021, 12:46:57 AM »
Ikarus?
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Offline sichel

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Re: si_029
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2021, 03:28:13 AM »
No.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline D-type

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Re: si_029
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2021, 03:33:57 PM »
German, so Siemens?
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Offline sichel

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Re: si_029
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2021, 04:26:43 PM »
German: yes
Siemens: partial
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline ducamax66

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Re: si_029
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2021, 05:21:33 PM »
Lowa W602?
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Offline sichel

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Re: si_029
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2021, 06:06:06 PM »
No.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline sichel

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Re: si_029
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2021, 08:12:00 AM »
Maybe a prof has an idea.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline Carnut

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Re: si_029
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2021, 08:53:47 AM »
It was a Stadt Heilbronn trolleybus which ran until 1960, when they were replaced by diesel buses. Some were sold to the town of Braga in Portugal.
They were bodied by Heilbronn companies Wankmiller and Drögmöller in 1951 to 1955, but I haven't been able to find out what the chassis was yet..

« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 09:14:35 AM by Carnut »
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Offline sichel

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Re: si_029
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2021, 09:03:31 AM »
Locked for You till Tuesday. Than I'll be back from a short business trip. Please decide also, who was the coachbuilder and have a look at the front-wheels...
« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 09:26:58 AM by sichel »
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline Carnut

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Re: si_029
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2021, 09:27:13 AM »
Information is very thin on the ground.
I think this particular one was by Karosserie Wankmiller, but the chassis is purely guesswork. Henschel?
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Offline sichel

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Re: si_029
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2021, 09:39:05 AM »
Yes, it is Henschel, but please more details. Coachbuilder is a 50:50-choice  ;)
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline Carnut

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Re: si_029
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2021, 10:12:44 AM »
In that case it must be Gotthard Drögmöller?
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Offline sichel

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Re: si_029
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2021, 03:11:09 PM »
Yes, it is Drögmöller. But I miss the details of the bus.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline Carnut

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Re: si_029
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2021, 05:42:50 PM »
Oh, I thought I'd answered the four questions ("Who was the manufactorer of the chassis? Who built the body and when? Where was it used? One point for four answers"):

It's a Stadt Heilbronn trolleybus bodied by Gotthard Drögmöller on a Henschel chassis in 1951. It remained in service only until 1960 when some of them were sold for operation in Braga, Portugal.

Since you specially said to look at the front wheels maybe that's what you're referring to.
The front wheels are also double, like at the rear, which is very unusual but I don't know the reason. Surely not FWD or AWD?
Perhaps it's something to do with the fact the trolleybuses could also tow a passenger trailer, and there were 3 trailers on the fleet along with 7 Henschel buses. But the law was changed in the early 1960s and they would no longer be allowed to tow a trailer.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 07:25:20 AM by Carnut »
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Offline sichel

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Re: si_029
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2021, 01:54:28 PM »
Sorry Carnut, my mistake. Genrally I ask for manufactorer and type (Henschel II-6500), but in this case, I forgot it. So, your answer is complete and you have earned the point.

For double tyres: there are two explanations for this.

First: For trolleybusses type II (two axles, up to 90 passengers), tyres in the dimension 12.00-20 where needed, but because of the war preparations not available in sufficient quantity. So, double tyres 9.00-20 were used by Henschel as a substitute. This is a trademark for first generation Henschel-trolleybuses

Second: Through the smaller tyres the entrance height could be lowered, an advantage for the fast flow of passengers.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 02:49:22 PM by sichel »
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline Carnut

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Re: SOLVED - si_029 - Henschel - II-6500 - Drögmöller - Heilbronn - 1951
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2021, 05:27:44 PM »
Thanks Sichel.
Just to add a little more information, the fleet numbers of the Henschel buses were 201/206 and the chassis numbers were 25230/5.

Regarding the double tyres, I did wonder if they really were double (I know it says they are on one of the Heilbronn historical sites) as it's not really possible to make them out clearly and it would make the buses very heavy to steer.  But your explanation is logical and I'm sure you're right.

I studied pictures of the buses after they were sold to Braga but I still couldn't make it out if they really were double at the front!:

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Offline sichel

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Re: SOLVED - si_029 - Henschel - II-6500 - Drögmöller - Heilbronn - 1951
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2021, 08:06:53 PM »
Carnut, thank you for this background-informations.
You are right with the problem of steering forces. And so Henschel used pneumatic power steering.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline sichel

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Re: SOLVED - si_029 - Henschel - II-6500 - Drögmöller - Heilbronn - 1951
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2021, 04:46:17 PM »
@ carnut: Question clarified?
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline Carnut

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Re: SOLVED - si_029 - Henschel - II-6500 - Drögmöller - Heilbronn - 1951
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2021, 05:41:50 PM »
 :thumbsup:
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