« previous next »
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: The Lancia Aurelia - Mercedes-Benz mix  (Read 932 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Delorean

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 747
  • Country: be
  • Puzzle Points 201
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
The Lancia Aurelia - Mercedes-Benz mix
« on: March 16, 2015, 06:24:58 AM »
Would anybody have an idea what this 'Mercedes 220' would be? I saw it at a local carshow a few weeks back, but couldn't find any information for it. The owner didn't even have any papers on it, he found it in a shed ...

My guess is that's it a rebuild Lancia Aurelia B20 Coupé ...
Logged

Offline Wendax

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 63890
  • Country: de
  • Puzzle Points 2373
  • e^^(i*pi)+1=0
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Lancia Aurelia - Mercedes-Benz mix
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2015, 06:38:37 AM »
Is the negative camber at the rear axle usual for Aurelias? Or is there a Mercedes axle (or more) underneath?
It is certainly a private Lancia-Mercedes mix.
Logged

Offline Djetset

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 13474
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 562
  • Car Life
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Lancia Aurelia - Mercedes-Benz mix
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2015, 11:33:01 AM »
I also attended the Antwerp classic car show a couple of weeks ago Delorean, and like you, I spotted the strange Lancia-Mercedes coupe cocktail, and took some almost identical photos.

From what i understand, c.1960 the owner of the Aurelia B20 - a Brussels-based pharmacist - suffered mechanical problems with the Lancia, so swopped its running gear for the stronger and more reliable Mercedes-Benz 220 to make a rather unusual marriage.
Logged
A car is for life, not just for Christmas.

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40965
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Solved - NEH 5282: Mercedes-Benz W180 220A 1952 possibly rebodied 1956 by MHK Kaiserslautern
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2018, 11:13:53 AM »
What's this, by whom, from when - for 1 point?:

Remember - solving puzzles using 'Google Search by Image' is BANNED on AutoPuzzles!
Logged
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline norberthanke

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 932
  • Country: de
  • Puzzle Points 57
  • Name That Car!
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • Old gasoline stations
Re: NEH 5282
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2018, 04:54:05 PM »
rearlights seem from Mercedes Benz 180
Logged

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40965
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 5282
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2018, 06:03:30 PM »
Quote from: norberthanke on July 23, 2018, 04:54:05 PM
rearlights seem from Mercedes Benz 180

You're onto something there...!
Logged
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline norberthanke

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 932
  • Country: de
  • Puzzle Points 57
  • Name That Car!
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • Old gasoline stations
Re: NEH 5282
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2018, 02:42:46 PM »
a one-off but not from Mercedes
Logged

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40965
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 5282
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2018, 06:19:45 PM »
Quote from: norberthanke on July 24, 2018, 02:42:46 PM
a one-off but not from Mercedes

Exactly.
Logged
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline norberthanke

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 932
  • Country: de
  • Puzzle Points 57
  • Name That Car!
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • Old gasoline stations
Re: NEH 5282
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2018, 07:36:31 AM »
Not commercially built
Logged

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40965
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 5282
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2018, 08:09:03 AM »
It wasn't, no.
Logged
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline norberthanke

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 932
  • Country: de
  • Puzzle Points 57
  • Name That Car!
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • Old gasoline stations
Re: NEH 5282
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2018, 08:26:06 AM »
Front end less pleasing
Logged

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40965
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 5282
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2018, 06:31:02 PM »
You found a picture of the front?  But haven't identified it fully?

Here is a front view, which doesn't specially help with solving the puzzle if you haven't already done so:

Logged
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline norberthanke

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 932
  • Country: de
  • Puzzle Points 57
  • Name That Car!
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • Old gasoline stations
Re: NEH 5282
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2018, 08:32:55 AM »
A mixture between Spohn and Aurelia. We are in the Netherlands (number-plate in the back). No, I still do not know what it is. Front end looks overloaded, general line not bad.
Logged

Offline smodmog

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 325
  • Country: be
  • Puzzle Points 67
  • Name That Car!
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 5282
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2018, 03:18:30 AM »
Look what I found

A previous owner wrote to the Dutch Mercedes Benz importer AGAM in 1973 with a request to identify the car. According to the chassis number the car was delivered in February 1952 as a 4 door W187 type to the Belgian Mercedes Benz importer IMA.
The car is most likely converted by a Belgian coachbuilder in the 50's. My first thought was Coune, but this couldn't be confirmed by a Belgian Coune expert.
On the boot is the MB logo and underneath 220

Logged

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40965
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 5282
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2018, 04:04:06 AM »
Right so far, smodmog.
It was indeed built on a 1952 chassis but not by Coune or any other Belgian coachbuilder.
So we've established what it's based on but still not exactly which model it is and who built it.
Logged
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline norberthanke

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 932
  • Country: de
  • Puzzle Points 57
  • Name That Car!
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • Old gasoline stations
Re: NEH 5282
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2018, 11:13:17 AM »
This is not the right answer but I think the whole body is pure Lancia Aurelia Coupé, so it only can be privately been built. In the end we have to name the man in charge who built it
Logged

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40965
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 5282
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2018, 01:50:22 PM »
Whilst it strongly resembles a Lancia coupé none of it is actually pure Lancia and there are no Lancia parts; all metal and glass are individual.
There is some doubt about the car's provenance actually and there is a chance it could be by a Belgian coachbuilder, but if you tell me who the car has been attributed to (but with no actual proof) I'll give you the point and call it solvved.
Logged
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline smodmog

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 325
  • Country: be
  • Puzzle Points 67
  • Name That Car!
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 5282
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2018, 03:55:29 AM »
seems to be still a mystery

It is a Lancia Aurelia B20 that belonged to a Brussels pharmacist who changed the drivetrain around 1960 after having difficulties with the delicate Lancia parts.
Why not Lancia? Well, simply because there are too many crucial differences. The front windscreen totally different in shape and is mounted in the body under a different angle. The Lancia windscreen stands much steeper.
The rear window is different in shape.
The closing gap between the door and front mudguard is different in line. The side windows are different. In the door the window of the Lancia is much longer, the quarter window of the Lancia is shorter.
Under the the bonnet the inner wings and bulkhead are totally different from the Lancia. The stucture of the bottom bodywork is also totally different.
The Mercedes has a chassis where the Lancia has a monocoque .
The shape of the boot lid is also different. The Lancia boot lid is rounder in shape and the bottom corners are different in line
The story that it was once owned by a Brussels pharmacist could be right. We have heard that story too.

Logged

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40965
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 5282
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2018, 06:22:02 AM »
Yes, I fully agree.
Who is it generally attributed to though (although not sure it's accurate..)?

Logged
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline smodmog

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 325
  • Country: be
  • Puzzle Points 67
  • Name That Car!
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 5282
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2018, 07:24:58 AM »
on the website I can only find  that it could be MHK in Kaiserslautern but then again they not sure' I haven't been answered by MHK yet but I think we can write off that possibility'
Logged

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40965
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 5282
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2018, 09:44:58 AM »
MHK is what I was looking for, yes.
Although the pundits seem to rule out the school I don't really know they're right.  The MHK did use some Mercedes chassis to make some of their generally rather good creations and there is little documentation about them.  No-one has actually come up with a better or more credible alternative so that's how I'm going to leave it.
One day someone will know for sure!
Another point for you then!

And another picture, which emphasises the differences between it and a Lancia Aurelia B20 Coupé:

« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 09:48:38 AM by Carnut »
Logged
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline Wendax

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 63890
  • Country: de
  • Puzzle Points 2373
  • e^^(i*pi)+1=0
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Lancia Aurelia - Mercedes-Benz mix
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2025, 08:46:26 AM »
I have merged it with Carnut's puzzle as he wasn' t sure about the Kaiserslautern school as the origin (and I have my doubts about it).
Logged

Offline gte4289

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 19110
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 934
    • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Lancia Aurelia - Mercedes-Benz mix
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2025, 12:08:16 AM »
Not sure if this helps at all, but it was sold by Bonhams in 2019 with the following description:

Quote
1952 Mercedes-Benz 220 W187 Sports Saloon Conversion Project Chassis no. 187011 02323/52

•Unique in-period conversion in Lancia B20 style
•Believed to have been in Belgium/Holland for its entire life
•An incomplete project
•Offered for restoration

This unique Mercedes-Benz 220 was delivered new via Belgian importer IMA in Mechelen. It is believed the car had an accident early in its life and re-bodied to a one-off design inspired by the Lancia Aurelia B20. Professionally executed and looking every inch a factory creation, the body is believed to be the work of MHK (Meisterschule für Handwerker, Kaiserslautern), a technology college in Germany known for creating special car bodies. On the other hand, it could have been made by a professional coachbuilder in Belgium. A (copy) Dutch title dated 1968 refers to the body as '2-door', so the conversion must have been carried out prior to that date, while photographs of the Mercedes in its heyday seem to date from the 1970s.

It is believed the car has been in Belgium/Holland for its entire life. Correspondence reveals that it was in Westdorpe, Zeeuws Vlaanderen with the Smulders family, having previously belonged to a Mr Mijnsbergh for many years. Dating from 1973, there is correspondence on file between Mr Mijnsbergh and AGAM, importer for Mercedes-Benz in the Netherlands, concerning the special coachwork.

This car has been in 'restoration project' condition for quite some time and is offered with many parts missing, including the gearbox. It is believed that most of the missing parts are still with one of the previous owners. A potentially most rewarding project, this unique Mercedes-Benz, once restored to former glory, would be a guaranteed head-turner at any event.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »