AutoPuzzles - The Internet's Museum of Rare Cars!
AutoPuzzles Today => News, Information and Feedback => Topic started by: fromwien on August 22, 2021, 06:08:01 PM
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What do you think about of limiting the maximum time a puzzle to stay in each category?
For example:
Rookie section: max. 4 weeks
Expert section: max. 6 weeks
Professional section: max. 8 weeks
or
Rookie/Expert/Professional: each max. 4 weeks
or
Rookie/Expert/Professional: each max. 3 weeks
or
Rookie/Expert/Professional: each max. 2 weeks
I think, such a limit may bring more movement into the puzzle process, and helps to keep the game participants more attentive to what is happening and to get all of them into the course of the game. As I have to notice by myself sadly, the 'Professional' category is always the one with the fewest rate on puzzles. I get more and more uninterested to follow this nice site, as I have very rarely the opportunity to take part of the game
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Thanks for this.
It has been thought of and well-discussed amongst the Editors before.
The problem with that is actually policing it. What happens if the puzzle poster doesn't move it when its allotted time expires?
Does an Editor take it over? We rejected that idea as it doesn't follow the principal of AutoPuzzles, where the Editors don't interfore with puzzles unless it is absolutely necessary.. It's taking on too much as well as the Editor who moves it doesn't necessarily know the answer..
There are many instances where a very regular visitor just leaves his post in the Rookes even and forgets about it. I did move some myself a few months ago and it jogged the memory of the puzzler, who then did take it back again. But there are even Editors (e.g. Djetset) who have posted puzzles then disappeared. What do we do with those? I'm very reluctant to delete them.
What I usually do is either 'Bump' them or send a PM to the puzzle setter asking him to move his puzzles up, which usually does the trick.
On the face of it, it's a good idea, but there are unseen practical problems.
What do others think?
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Wouldn't it be possible, just as with the 'new'-signal, in case when a new answer appeared at a puzzle, to add the same way automatically an 'up'-signal, which draws the puzzle owner's attention to move his puzzle to the next category as soon as possible?
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If you have a look at the attachment to my statement, I think something of 'updating' to this site will be necessary, if we won't loose more and more 'users', and want to get more 'rookies' involved...
These 'stats' from today, with maximum 28 interested people looking at 'AutoPuzzles' shows a very good rating in comparison with many other days. And 28 people is nothing, if we think about all the car-maniacs around in the whole world...
This site has to get much, much more publicity with the quality that is presented here
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Yes, It is a perennial problem.
One idea is not to simply post every new puzzle in the Rookies section then for it to work its way up the other boards, unless and until it's solved, but also to post new puzzles on the Experts, Pro's and even the Masters Boards, according to their difficulty.
It could be a way round to encourage the Pro's more, if they had more of their own puzzles.
You could also actually bar Rookies and Experts from answering on the higher boards - usually they've had their chance. But on the other hand, if the puzzles are posted straight to the higher boards then the Rookies and Experts would never get their chance at them. Not much difference from the Pro's never getting their chance at many puzzles then..!
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Wouldn't it be possible, just as with the 'new'-signal, in case when a new answer appeared at a puzzle, to add the same way automatically an 'up'-signal, which draws the puzzle owner's attention to move his puzzle to the next category as soon as possible?
?
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No idea, sorry. I'm no computer geek!
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I've been thinking about it, since Fromwien posted his idea.
What I think it's we're going to have another problem, that is the upper categories will be full of cars and Rookies and Experts will be almost empties, unless all of us post new cars all the time.
If we see the issue from another perspective, Rookies, Experts and Professionals can look for solving their next categories puzzles even Black Hole, that has plenty and interesting material. Maybe, this could call the missing puzzlers to come back.
I don't know what would be better for the game
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If we continue to allow Rookies to answer any puzzles that would solve that problem!
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Here is a thought, allow cars which are reposts but rookies are not allowed access to the solved puzzle archives, as we have used up a lot of well known cars and are on to the more obscure things these days?
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I don't think we have to ban the rookies from the solved car section. Going through all the posts would be a Sisyphus task. And we have been allowing reposts for quite a while now, if they are older puzzles, perfectly combined with an unknown picture or a different view angle.
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The nice thing about 'AutoPuzzles' is, that everything is easy to understand for everybody. And that's how it should stay, in my opinion. Complicated innovations should actually be avoided.
It was not my intention to create additional rules, but to bring more movement into the existing system in an very easy and inconspicuous way.
The problem that the basic level for newcomers is now much too high, exacerbated by the anti-search-for-image-precautions by the puzzle-setters, frightens many automobile-interested-people to play with us. Even among my friends
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We should do a little campaign - like featuring some challenging puzzles on prewarcar.com, on Rare & Unique facebook page, I can ask AustroClassic to work with us etc. Also maybe boost our FB page a bit. There are ideas out there, but I for one will not have time to work on these, just minutes here and there.
Also I am a little bummed that my great Chinese car puzzles became dead ducks. I was hoping our new and enthusiastic puzzlers would grab the opportunity, but sadly no :(
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I totally agree with you, Pal, but don't we have to do any reformations to the rules before, as we loose many enthusiastic game participants after going up from the Rooks to the Experts? In the near past i. e.: BattlePorQ, 727 (!), etc..
I think, it will be necessary to take attention on this problem, otherwise we will remain a very shrunken family with fewer and fewer participants
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Yeah, but it is also a double-edged sword. If we loose the rules, the game will not be such fun any more. I don't know how to politely ask our participants not to shy away from challenges (e.g. moving from Rookies to Experts)
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Again I want determine, not "revolution" but "evolution" depending rules, may bring more movement. See my first post.
If newbies take a look at this site on Monday and next Monday one week later again, without finding much movement among the puzzles, further interest diminishes acutely.
Particularly stubborn car-maniacs will loose interest some more weeks later.
At first my only interest depends on much more movement, not more!
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What is the landing page people get to?
Is it the forum homepage or the front page of the site which maybe needs a revamp (the rare car of the week has been the same since I last looked at the page which must be over a year ago?)
Actually just checked
Featured rookie puzzle - 2013
Featured article - 2010
Photo feature - 2013 (last post 2015)
Featured expert - dead link
Rare car of the week - 2009
Solved puzzles compendium - blank
Featured pro puzzle - 2013
Featured article - 2012
Photo feature - 2012
And then the killer one a copyright date of 2012.
If people are arriving on the homepage then you would think this was a dead site that nobody used based on the links shown.
So if they are getting to the forum they can see stuff is posted regularly if they come to the homepage well…..
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In general terms I agree with fromwien's initial post. As a puzzle-setting novice, I found it quite difficult to move my unsolved puzzle from one category to the next. I'm sure it becomes much easier with practice, but an outline of that procedure could do with a clear simple instruction page somewhere, particularly if you want newcomers to do their bit by moving their puzzles on promptly. I'd also suggest more rookies might be interested if you recycle some of the solved puzzles but ask a different question, things like identifying when or where a car was registered by it's number plate, perhaps guessing the country where the cars photo was taken or perhaps the year the photo was taken. Other things might be identifying a less obscure car from components, perhaps it's tail lights or hub caps or something else like the engine.
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Tail lights I did a few a while back, maybe time to start again (the best ones are the car lights lit up at night but they are hard to photograph well)
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It's always good to see puzzles like that!
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Time to raid eBay for some photos then…
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An idea to revive "BLACK-HOLE"-puzzles:
What do you think about the idea, to add (if possible by the puzzle-setter) an additional picture or small hint, and let start this puzzle once again in the 'Master-section' (so everybody will get able again, to offer new guesses)?
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That's a fine idea if there are additional photos or extra information. I think I have done such before, but sometimes you just have little information yourself.
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Going back to my post from the 1st September the home page for the site is still the same as it was then……
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As Wendax says, very often with a BH subject even the OP doesn't know much about the car. That's how it ends up in the BH! There's nothing on the internet or in reference books to add any more information. The BH is just going to grow in size unfortunately.
As for the home page, as you say this has been something idscussed before, and I agree that it is not the best advert for our community if a potential new member has stumbled upon the site. I have the puzzle page bookmarked so I never see the front page and forget how bad it is. IIRC when it has been discussed before it was believed that access to the page was restricted to Ultra who was the founder of AP. I'm not sure if he would be all that pleased if we bothered him with extra work now he's retired.
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I never see the home page as like you I always go straight to the forum page as it is where my bookmark is set up to do, I just thought I would check it this morning
Just did a search for AutoPuzzles on DuckDuckGo the first hit was amazon, the second was a jigsaw retailer, the third took you to the front page and the fourth to AutoPuzzles.blogspot.com (last updated in 2010……
Other search engines are available and your results may vary….
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Going back to my post from the 1st September the home page for the site is still the same as it was then……
Otto used to update it and he is the only one who knew how to do it..
He did send me full instructions about 7 or 8 years ago (now lost) but it was so complicated I never even tried it. I think it ran to about 5 pages!
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Going back to my post from the 1st September the home page for the site is still the same as it was then……
Otto used to update it and he is the only one who knew how to do it..
He did send me full instructions about 7 or 8 years ago (now lost) but it was so complicated I never even tried it. I think it ran to about 5 pages!
Ah. I thought it was Ultra but you have reminded me. I wonder if Karoly would find it a simple task (simple by his standards) or whether it would be a bridge too far to ask him after everything he's done for us.
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Maybe I should ask Otto for the instructions again...!
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A bit of reverse engineering and I pulled the source code for the front page off the site and replicated on my own machine.
The main problem is the saved puzzle compendium I have no idea how it works and it appears to use flash (which is not good in this day and age).
The bad news is the links were all done manually
They are a link direct to the page in the forum and then Otto has taken a copy of the picture resized it to 320px wide x 240px high
i.e.
<p align="center">
<a href="http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=26296.msg294936#msg294936 (http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=26296.msg294936#msg294936)"><img border="0" hspace="0" src="Rookie.jpg" width="320" height=240></a>
</p>
The first part in bolt the link to the page on the forum, the second section is the image.
So this links to a page on the forum and displays a picture called Rookie.jpg
It is the same for the other pages
go to https://www.gilescooper.co.uk/autopuzzles.zip (https://www.gilescooper.co.uk/autopuzzles.zip) to download the file set - anyone wants me to I can go through it in more detail
or the page will run from https://www.gilescooper.co.uk/autopuzzles/autopuzzles.html
Giles
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However it works I would agree to it!
I'm afraid you've lost me Giles..
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I feel very happy about that wide spread discussion, and think, it's a very necessary one, to keep 'AutoPuzzles' alive.
Sadly, I am not an website-expert, will try to ask my son for hints if they are necessary in converting to new design.
On the other hand, I think, anybody who's not so confident with the computer-world, may tell some input about new implemented rules, that may make puzzling more attractive and brings more movement into the puzzle process.. (did I hear that before?)
Thanks to all involved in this very very necessary discussion and helpful cooperation
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Good morning
1, Sorry for my absence from this conversation
2, We can modify the home page, I just updated the copyright info from 2012 to 2021 and did another cheeky little thing just to see whether this whole things works. It does.
3, Flash is not working any more. Please let me know where we use Flash and we will try to erase it
4, The whole AP site is hopelessly outdated. If we want to make it visually more attractive we may need to spend some money on it.
5, Making AP more attractive is a noble task, I will try to contribute but I am afraid I will not be very consistent here as we are in the middle of moving all across Europe, not to mention a few other smaller projects.
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I can see the copyright date has changed but the other change is too subtle.
Flash was used for the solved puzzles compendium.
The original page looks like it was html from Microsoft word, so I cleaned the copy I made up.
We’re you thinking of radical changes or just something to make it mobile friendly. I could make the front page into a flexible layout fairly quickly as I have another site which uses something very similar so would just adapt the code.
Does the forum itself use a standard css file, if so we could make the front page reference it and then any colour / style changes reflect on both.
Only random thoughts but it might help out
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Yes, very subtle change.
Yes, the site is a very simple HTML - please send over your version and I can upload it.
Not surprisingly the CSS of the current theme is
https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/Themes/default/css/index.css
I can see the copyright date has changed but the other change is too subtle.
Flash was used for the solved puzzles compendium.
The original page looks like it was html from Microsoft word, so I cleaned the copy I made up.
We’re you thinking of radical changes or just something to make it mobile friendly. I could make the front page into a flexible layout fairly quickly as I have another site which uses something very similar so would just adapt the code.
Does the forum itself use a standard css file, if so we could make the front page reference it and then any colour / style changes reflect on both.
Only random thoughts but it might help out
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Ok give me a day to do the work, I will change the css to use the main site one. And adapt to be a more responsive layout
Let me know where to send it or you can download it from my website when it is done
Giles
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Please send it pnegyesi@ceauto.at
Thanks
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No problem
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Be careful out there. Don't make it too attractive. I like this site like Brooklands - the right crowd and no crowding.
To allow simple access by mobile/cellphone would definitely be a bonus.
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1st revised version sent - not perfect but better than the previous one.
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It is up and running. Thanks Giles and let hear others what they think
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A thought the front page if you don’t know the aim of the site is rather uninformative.
We could do with a paragraph or two explaining the purpose of the page?
What do people think, and who wants to come up with some words.
Also I can have a look at the other pages that are linked off the front page and update them to look the same
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I like the new look
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Well done Giles.
Big improvement!
We just have to make sure it's kept u p-to-date now..
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That was phase 1, now trying to get the page to look like the forum - same menu and header styles to make it more consistent.
The problem is matching two completely different document layouts - needs a bit more time for me which I will have next week hopefully.
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quick preview of the revised version
Need to sort out the menu (it won't yet wrap on smaller screens)
And change the images used for the sections to something better
Basically it now looks like the forum itself as it borrows a lot of the layout code from it.
I have a copy running on https://www.gilescooper.co.uk/autopuzzles/autopuzzles.html (https://www.gilescooper.co.uk/autopuzzles/autopuzzles.html)
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I have just sent V2 over to Pal.
Now a question for everyone - go to the front page (doesn't matter if it has been updated yet) click on "articles" in the menu (not the picture labelled "featured articles")
You will find yourself on a page with a lot of links on it. Each of those links will take you to a dedicated article page which then links back to the forum page.
Did anyone else know these existed ????
And should we try and maintain them or just lose them.
Thanks
Giles
p.s. here is the preview of the latest version.
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I think I did know of their existence - I haven't checked but maybe they are what is now "feature articles". Notwithstanding that, the only name there that is still current is AllanL, apart from Otto himself. I don't think anyone would miss them.
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I’m not sure if they were extracted from the feature article section or created first, regardless they are rather old, and I doubt not very often visited.
The very bottom article has a link to the forum at the end, and clicking on that takes you to a stub story on a forum page.
Maybe it is time for a clean up, as the pages don’t have any stat counters it is not possible to find out when they were last visited.
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I think a direct link to the "Features, Stories and Photos" section would be more appropriate.
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Pal has uploaded the new version of the front page so it is now live.
I will have a look at the other pages in a bit, one of them is a link to
“Friends of autopuzzles”
I’m not sure why it got the name (useful links maybe) but are there other sites we should have links to.
As the list was last updated in 2012, I need to first check if the links are valid, only about half seem to be
But suggestions for newer links would be good.
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Big improvement Giles. Well done.
I last clicked on 'Store' quite a few years ago but I see all the items are still there.
Is it actually possible to order any of these things and get them?! Anybody know?
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Big improvement Giles. Well done.
I last clicked on 'Store' quite a few years ago but I see all the items are still there.
Is it actually possible to order any of these things and get them?! Anybody know?
I wondered the same. I assume either Ultra or Otto held the stock.
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Yes, I think you're right.
I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work if you tried to order anything, in which case it might be better to remove the 'Store'?
Shame as the things there look quite good! I'd rather like an AutoPuzzles mug!
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Big improvement Giles. Well done.
I last clicked on 'Store' quite a few years ago but I see all the items are still there.
Is it actually possible to order any of these things and get them?! Anybody know?
I wondered the same. I assume either Ultra or Otto held the stock.
I think cafepress will produce stuff on demand. I.e. they get a blank shirt and print the logo on it.
Who the money goes to is another matter as normally there is a cut for the site?
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Yes, I think you're right.
I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work if you tried to order anything, in which case it might be better to remove the 'Store'?
Shame as the things there look quite good! I'd rather like an AutoPuzzles mug!
If you go to cafepress.co.uk and search for autopuzzles the mug is available it will cost you £9.75. Try and order one?
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Thanks.
I'll try it!
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Ten quid for a mug !!?? Ahm oot......
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It it £10 for a mug, or a mug taken for £10………
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It is rather a lot, yes.
But £10 for a mug with AutoPuzzles on it?! A rarity!
I'll have to wait until I've recovered from the horrific Christmas expense though...
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I was just looking at the new front page which was uploaded by Pal and see it needs a bit of 'honing' as there are quite a few grammatical errors.
Am I able to correct the errors or can you to do it Giles? Or Pal?
Here it is with corrections:
Welcome to Autopuzzles, the world's largest index of rare cars and home of the "Name that Car" puzzle.
The puzzles: a member will post an image of a vehicle and then other members will try to identify the vehicle. For each one correctly identified the poster of the puzzle/s will award point/s. To make things fairer there are levels: upon reaching a new level you are prevented from answering question in the lower level.
i.e. Gaining 50 points will get you out of the "Rookie" section and you will be able to create your own puzzles, but not answer other people's puzzles in the Rookie section.
Inside AutoPuzzles, find thousands of event photos, classic automotive advertisements, motorsports photographs and lots more! Come in, look around and please contribute some of your pictures.
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I have just updated the wording for the front page and sent the revised code to Pal to upload onto the server.
I have also updated the privacy policy so it looks the same (this probably needs a rewrite to modern standards).
Finally I updated the "Friends of Autopuzzles" page - this now has a lot less links than the version uploaded as when I checked out of the 13 links on the page - only 6 actually went to live websites.
Anyone wants to suggest new links then I can add them to the page easily.
Still need to look at the featured article list and work that one out though.
Giles
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Uploaded with a tiny bit of change
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Uploaded with a tiny bit of change
:thumbsup:
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Firstly, I want to wish all of you AutoPuzzler's, a healthy and successful New Year 2022!
Secondly, I want to thank everyone involved in the page's 'new designing' for their great commitment!
My third point I want to mention, takes me back to the start, when I was thinking about a 'revitalization project' of this slowly deceasing page:
Within one year, starting as a Rookie in March 2020, I had really fun with puzzling until I've reached 'professional'-status about March 2021.
Since then, I feel myself very redundant on this page with puzzling. My only job is to invent new puzzles, which sometimes reach 'Professional'- and 'Master'-status and prevent me again from guessing..!? Of the 37 puzzles in the 'Professional'-section at the moment, there are not less than 10 fromwien-puzzles (nearly 1/3!)!
Sometimes I thought about to cancel my 'fromwien'-account, and start from new with another account! To have fun from the beginning again!
Could a introduction of a maximum point limit of i. e. 500 points, bring more movement into the game? If everyone has to start -after reaching this limit- from new in the Expert-section? All of the puzzlers, who once a time have reached a max-limit, will get awarded with a 'golden marking' and have the obligation to provide a puzzle in the rookie section, when receiving a point!
With the rules as now, I am sure by myself, to loose interest in puzzling at this site very soon.. No more eagerness and too short discussion
All the best to all of you, fromwien
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Thanks for this.
It has been thought of and well-discussed amongst the Editors before.
The problem with that is actually policing it. What happens if the puzzle poster doesn't move it when its allotted time expires?
Does an Editor take it over? We rejected that idea as it doesn't follow the principal of AutoPuzzles, where the Editors don't interfore with puzzles unless it is absolutely necessary.. It's taking on too much as well as the Editor who moves it doesn't necessarily know the answer..
There are many instances where a very regular visitor just leaves his post in the Rookes even and forgets about it. I did move some myself a few months ago and it jogged the memory of the puzzler, who then did take it back again. But there are even Editors (e.g. Djetset) who have posted puzzles then disappeared. What do we do with those? I'm very reluctant to delete them.
Instead of deleting long lasting puzzles of disappeared posters, may it be a opportunity to ask current puzzlers in higher sections than there the abandoned puzzle is, to take them over? With the premise, they know the answer, of course..
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Many thanks for your thoughts fromwien, most of which I agree with completely.
In fact I posted the following on the Editors board a few weeks ago, but unfortunately got very little response:
QUOTE
We changed things a couple of years ago when we introduced the Masters board.
I'm not sure it's helped a great deal though.
The problem is, we lose too many players once they reach 400 points. It's very hard indeed for all but the very top players to earn points on the Pro's board (I know because I rarely take part in solving puzzles now). This is not conducive to keeping the site alive and active.
Having thought a lot about it I think the problem is that we now have quite a few very good Experts so only really difficult puzzles reach the Professionals board; they're so hard that most Pro's can't manage them and drift away (think of all the long-standing Pro's we've lost, e.g. Djetset).
What we could do is merge the Experts and Pro's into one category which lasts all the way from 50 to 750 points.
That would make the whole site a lot more fun (except for the Masters of course, but there's no way we could keep them in the merged category otherwise nobody else would solve anything...)
There's no question that the majority of the fun is now to be had on the Experts board, which of course favours newer members at the expense of long-standing players. Perhaps the answer could be for the puzzle poster to decide on the difficulty of the puzzle being posted and post it on the appropriate board to start with, rather than the usual way of starting on the Rookies and moving it up board by board in time. Most puzzles don't then reach the Pro's, never mind the Masters, which inevitably means the more senior players lose interest and drift away because they can't play anymore. That's not good.
What does everyone think?
UNQUOTE
I don't want to see the site die, but I (like you) don't have the luxury of solving puzzles any more.
It needs to change!
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I like the idea about creating a category 50-750, for the Pros and Experts.
I have an idea about creating a bank of puzzles, to prevent the puzzles stay cold, forever. In the cases of runaway puzzlers, using it giving clues and guidance to solve them. The problem is, who manages it. Just an idea!
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I'm happy to agree to anything that'll keep members satisfied. My suggestion to create the Masters category was perhaps a mistake, although there was little dissent from the other editors.
We certainly don't want to lose excellent contributors whatever their AP status.
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Sorry, I don't think, that merging the Experts and Pro's into one category will really solve our problems and saves fun for all of us.
I consider this from my point of view as follows: I think or hope to reach the 750 points within one year. After gaining this aim, I will be confrontated again with the same problem as now
I think, my proposal contains much more necessary components (especially also for the Masters):
Here within I want to explain, why:
Maximum point limit of i. e. 750 points. After reaching this limit, everybody has to start from new in the Expert-section again.
All of these puzzlers will get awarded with a 'special marking' and have the obligation to provide a puzzle in the rookie section, when receiving a point!
Every current puzzler will get then involved as an active player! Right, competition will get very hard, but on the other hand, we will get served with much more and high-class puzzles by the 'kings'! As more different puzzles are in, as better the chance for everybody to find one of his favorite theme to solve.
I know that the level is very high and will get much higher. Unfortunately, this can hardly be corrected, as it's very hard to find interesting new puzzles, without running the risk of starting a repost.
The only way out of this 'circulum vitiosum' will need more creativity by the puzzle-poster: Asking for dashboard-, wheel-, grille- and other -cut-outs. But I am not sure, if all of us are interested in puzzles like these
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Gentle-women and -men,
It is really 'five to twelve', if you want to keep this site alive!
Please check! Only 6 to 10 Users per day are online on a worldwide website!
I will try my best to think about new and practicable modifications,
please check all the ideas, previously stated at this topic!
sorry, I cannot translate them in computer-language
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Hmm I just checked the stats for a club website which is only uk based, we are getting about 15 visitors a day on that. And all the content is static (hasn’t been updated for about 3 weeks).
So maybe a pr campaign effort is needed
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Sometimes I thought about to cancel my 'fromwien'-account, and start from new with another account! To have fun from the beginning again!
Puzzlers have been banned for life for doing exactly that!
I don't want to start imposing conditions, i.e. certain players must post a new puzzle if they earn a point.
I can hardly find any new puzzles anymore...
Rather than change and over-complicate everything I'd like to see new puzzles posted in the Masters' section (perhaps by other Masters but anyone could) and say only Masters can answer them. Same could also happen for Professionals, with only Pro's able to answer.
Although it's always been the habit for puzzles to start off in the Rookies section (and sometimes stay there for months and even years, which completely wastes them) and move up through the boards gradually, there's nothing to say we have to do that.
We can post them wherever we want.
It would involve the Pro's and Masters much more if they had their own puzzles to solve.
They need to have some fun as well.
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There you go - one obscure puzzle straight into the masters section...
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1) Answer to:
Puzzlers have been banned for life for doing exactly that! That might be a very noble decision, but only means one more less player
2) Answer to:
I don't want to start imposing conditions, i.e. certain players must post a new puzzle if they earn a point.
I can hardly find any new puzzles anymore...
If you would have read my proposals carefully, this regulation wouldn't affect you for a very long time. It would only take effect for all players having scored more than 750 points. And I know, they would do that with pleasure. See 'Wendax's', 'pnegyesi's', etc. great responsibility for the survival of this site.
3) Answer to:
Rather than change and over-complicate everything I'd like to see new puzzles posted in the Masters' section (perhaps by other Masters but anyone could) and say only Masters can answer them. Same could also happen for Professionals, with only Pro's able to answer.
Herewith we leave the path of the democratic attempted solution process completely! We are forming a two-class or three-class rate puzzle-community
For example: What would 'sichel' think about, if the 'Pro-and-Master-High-Society' would slip puzzles to themselves, which he -as the 'little' Expert- could easily solve, but should not be allowed to?
This would only create the same rift between the current puzzle friends, that is currently practiced by politics between vaccinated and unvaccinated people
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There you go - one obscure puzzle straight into the masters section...
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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1) Answer to:
Puzzlers have been banned for life for doing exactly that! That might be a very noble decision, but only means one more less player
No, it means one fewer cheat.
2) Answer to:
I don't want to start imposing conditions, i.e. certain players must post a new puzzle if they earn a point.
I can hardly find any new puzzles anymore...
If you would have read my proposals carefully, this regulation wouldn't affect you for a very long time. It would only take effect for all players having scored more than 750 points. And I know, they would do that with pleasure. See 'Wendax's', 'pnegyesi's', etc. great responsibility for the survival of this site.
I read your post very carefully. Of course I know it would never apply to me, but I'm answering from the point of view of the site and its players not from my own point of view. If I find it very hard to find appropriate puzzles I'm pretty sure others do too.
3) Answer to:
Rather than change and over-complicate everything I'd like to see new puzzles posted in the Masters' section (perhaps by other Masters but anyone could) and say only Masters can answer them. Same could also happen for Professionals, with only Pro's able to answer.
Herewith we leave the path of the democratic attempted solution process completely! We are forming a two-class or three-class rate puzzle-community
For example: What would 'sichel' think about, if the 'Pro-and-Master-High-Society' would slip puzzles to themselves, which he -as the 'little' Expert- could easily solve, but should not be allowed to?
This would only create the same rift between the current puzzle friends, that is currently practiced by politics between vaccinated and unvaccinated people
That's silly.
We already have plenty of puzzles that most members cannot participate in, so there's nothing new except there would be more puzzles that Pro's and Masters could participate in.
I just don't get your point about vaccinations I'm afraid, but I sincerely hope you don't mean the discussion is only an attempted democratic solution if all your own proposals are accepted en bloc.
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One can discuss objectively and constructively, or act in an emotionally destructive manner. The latter leads to the downfall of the site for sure
1) Puzzlers have been banned for life for doing exactly that! That might be a very noble decision, but only means one more less player..
No, it means one fewer cheat.
Is someone a really bad boy/girl, who tries to find an unusual way to take part in puzzles, as he/she finds almost no options to do that, because of inadequate out of date rules? I don't see that as emotional as you. More than an expression of a way out of helplessness.
2) Answer to:
I don't want to start imposing conditions, i.e. certain players must post a new puzzle if they earn a point.
I can hardly find any new puzzles anymore...
If you would have read my proposals carefully, this regulation wouldn't affect you for a very long time. It would only take effect for all players having scored more than 750 points. And I know, they would do that with pleasure. See 'Wendax's', 'pnegyesi's', etc. great responsibility for the survival of this site.
I read your post very carefully. Of course I know it would never apply to me, but I'm answering from the point of view of the site and its players not from my own point of view. If I find it very hard to find appropriate puzzles I'm pretty sure others do too.
Me too, always have my thoughts and ideas focused on the site and its players. And I agree with you, that it is very hard to find appropriate puzzles. But exactly these Master-players, I focused on, are these people, who already provide us with a lot of great puzzles! (Wendax, pnegyesi, Oguerrerob,..). And I believe, they enjoy it. Or not?
3) Answer to:
Rather than change and over-complicate everything I'd like to see new puzzles posted in the Masters' section (perhaps by other Masters but anyone could) and say only Masters can answer them. Same could also happen for Professionals, with only Pro's able to answer.
Herewith we leave the path of the democratic attempted solution process completely! We are forming a two-class or three-class rate puzzle-community
For example: What would 'sichel' think about, if the 'Pro-and-Master-High-Society' would slip puzzles to themselves, which he -as the 'little' Expert- could easily solve, but should not be allowed to?
This would only create the same rift between the current puzzle friends, that is currently practiced by politics between vaccinated and unvaccinated people
That's silly.
We already have plenty of puzzles that most members cannot participate in, so there's nothing new except there would be more puzzles that Pro's and Masters could participate in.
I just don't get your point about vaccinations I'm afraid, but I sincerely hope you don't mean the discussion is only an attempted democratic solution if all your own proposals are accepted en bloc.
Your answer makes me so speechless and stunning, that I just want to go into it briefly:
It's completely different to deny rookies and experts the participation in all present puzzles than to give experienced players (Pros, master) a smaller playing room.
I don't want to comment your last sentence
Please excuse the unseemly interruption on the way to demise.
The sinking of the unsinkable Titanic went down in history, the once proud 'AutoPuzzles'-site will soon be remembered by few
As long it lasts, I will enjoy it
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We obviously have differing views on progress, but these are all just the ideas of 2 people and there's no point in arguing with each other.
What we need is more ideas/proposals/comments from others.
I would just say though that the idea that it's OK for a puzzler to change his name then start again from the Rookies with 0 points is immoral. That really isn't a way to take the site forward.
Await other opinions.
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The reason this site appears to be stagnant is that there are only a limited number of people in the world who are totally obssessed with all things automotive. We have many, many new members who join and are never seen again - they think they know a lot about cars and then find they are out of their depth. People get bored if they cannot achieve what they thought was a simple task. I joined AP as a person considered by everyone who knew me as the "car-mad" guy, only to find I actually knew very little.
The site does not progress simply because I think it has achieved its plateau. I expect numbers to rise to maybe 2500 eventually and then level out. There really aren't that many potential members out there, and even fewer who will last the course. Its a very specialised site.
When we established the Masters section there was no dissent from those who were affected, even though they had virtually nothing to play with. It's accepted that if you have proved your credentials, that in itself is like being honoured. Members like Wendax continue to take a very active role, and enjoy finding new puzzle subjects.
It's a democratic site - always open to valid suggestions and progressing through majority consent. However, when changes are offered there is usually a deafening silence, even from some of the editors. I think we can say that AP members are very conservative in their views. Not radicals by any means. Any changes suggested are going to have to be mighty good ones!
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Thanks nicanary. I agree completely.
I think you're right that we've reached a plateau, but I think one of the reasons the membership changes and a lot of the longer-standing members disappear is that the content has inevitably changed so much over the years.
When I first joined, longer ago than I care to remember, there were pages and pages of fairly rare and very rare, mostly post-war, cars to mull over and investigate. That interested a lot of people in those days and there were regularly 40 or 50 on site at once.
Now that thousands and thousands of cars have been puzzled and are on our database (so far nearly 36,000 topics have been posted) there are far fewer unpuzzled rarities to post and the offerings have changed so much that it's dominated by veteran and vintage cars, commercial vehicles, buses, motorcycles and mechanical bits.
That's going to interest far, far fewer people and I have to say pre-war cars don't interest me a great deal.
The site has reached its plateau because nearly all the accessible cars and those that interest most car enthusiasts have been puzzled.
Quite where we go from here I don't know. We can tinker with it eternally but nothing is going to change the fact that without all those cars being puzzled like there used to be we are not going to interest a massive number of people.
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I should not really be here. There's so much to do in the garage! Consider me to be the champion of the lazy and the bewildered;...for instance I have failed to find guidance on how to proceed after having posted a new puzzle. I am not "computer literate". Nonetheless, AP has become addictive, and, from reading earlier comments, it looks like we should be classed as a protected species.
I have a handful of potential puzzles which I would gladly contribute to a "pool" into which our glorious leaders could go fishing as and when the need arises. Personally, puzzle points do not rate highly, unless they can be converted into spark-plugs or gasket material;...but I envisage a point (or a sichel Bee) being awarded to a donor in the event of usage. Perhaps such a holding facility would encourage some of the "over-night visitors" to persevere a liitle or a lot longer. Even the rookiest of Rookies is likely to have some knowledge and evidence of matters undreamt. I suspect that we are throwing gold down the drain as we revel in our own collective brilliance :grad:
Peace to All.
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I would like to remind again on my suggestion for improvement of August 22, 2021:
The situation, as it is:
1) Almost no new puzzle has been solved in the 'rookie category' for months.
2) The puzzles slowly move into the 'Experts-category', where they remain until they are solved or forever.
3) There is no movement in the 'Professionals- and Masters-category'.
4) 65 puzzles out of a total of 96 puzzles in the 'Professionals-category' are my own puzzles. Exactly 31 puzzles that correspond to my level of knowledge remain to be guessed for me..
I just want to remind you again that without more movement, the site will have no future.
However, there will be no shortage of a number of new puzzles. I could guarantee for that. Thousands are left
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Rookie-section: 105 topics, only 11 replies from interested players..
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4) 65 puzzles out of a total of 96 puzzles in the 'Professionals-category' are my own puzzles. Exactly 31 puzzles that correspond to my level of knowledge remain to be guessed for me..
Why don't you move your oldest professional puzzles to the Masters-category ? When a puzzle spends more than 6 months without any guess it's more than time to move it up IMHO.
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:applause:
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4) 65 puzzles out of a total of 96 puzzles in the 'Professionals-category' are my own puzzles. Exactly 31 puzzles that correspond to my level of knowledge remain to be guessed for me..
Why don't you move your oldest professional puzzles to the Masters-category ? When a puzzle spends more than 6 months without any guess it's more than time to move it up IMHO.
Awaited this comment:
1) Only 16 of my 126 (!) active puzzles are older than half a year, since last guess!
2) Please check carefully 'Rookie-, Experts- and Professionals-sections' for puzzles of other players, to find much more older puzzles than mine. Over one or two years old.
3) Personally I will feel very pleased, to get the opportunity, guessing on more than four of your puzzles. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a single one. At least, five of my puzzles are available for you to guess in the Masters category. +500%!
4) Returning to realism and objectivity could be very useful for the site
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At 1) So why don't you move them?
At 2) Should that really be an excuse?
At 3) 5 more than 0 is not +500 % ;) (5 more than 1 would be)
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I know my main problem and I think it must also apply to others, esp. Pro's and even Experts, many of whom have abandoned the site.
I don't get the chance to play any more as the puzzles I know the answer to either get solved before they reach the Pro's or they never reach the Pro's as they get stuck in the Rookies and/or Experts.
I don't know the answer to any of the puzzles in the Pro's section; hence I can't get involved.
When that happens people lose interest completely, as many of the original stalwarts have.
It's not actually a requirement for puzzles to start in the Rookies then move up board by board unless they are solved. I used to have a time limit of 2 weeks in the Rookies and 4 in the Experts, in order to keep them on the move. But that doesn't seem to happen much any more and they get stuck in the Rookies. There are puzzles in the Rookies that I know, of course, but they seem to have been there forever and I'm not sure their puzzler has the intention of ever moving them up. There's nothing to stop puzzlers posting puzzles straight to the Pro's or any board they want. That might at least give some players who haven't been Rookies or Experts for about 12 years to get involved.
Sorry to say but apart from looking at new puzzles every day to see what people are finding, I have had no involvement in the game for a very long time now. In its current format it's not really open to me.
As the site is registered in my name I pay the fees and keep it going as I still think it's the best site on the www by a long way. But I don't play it any more.
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Hello carnut, I agree with you about the pros knowing the answer,s of the rookie section that never reach the pros.I do know alot of the answers of the rookie section but never get to solve them,believe me Im not complaining or anything like that.I still play but not quite as much,I,ll never give up autopuzzles though.Lknow you guys will figure some solution for this situation.thanks.
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I'm with Carnut on this one. I do wish people would promote their puzzles after a certain time rather than forget about them.
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At 1) So why don't you move them?
At 2) Should that really be an excuse?
At 3) 5 more than 0 is not +500 % ;) (5 more than 1 would be)
For sure, I can understand that you only deal with the Masters section, but:
1) I try to democratically distribute my 126 active puzzles evenly so that each group has about the same number of puzzles to solve. It just doesn't succeed in the Professionals category, which is constantly undersupplied with puzzles (where most of my puzzles are located!)
2) There are three times as many puzzles in the Masters category as in each of the other ones!
Yes, these puzzles may need much more time to get solved than most other ones. But sorry, this will be the challenge for the Masters! Not waiting for easily edible fresh meat, like hungry sharks.
3) Mathematically absolutely correct (+ one point), but did you get the point of this comment (- one point?)?
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It just doesn't succeed in the Professionals category, which is constantly undersupplied with puzzles (where most of my puzzles are located!)
That's because nobody knows the answers and puzzles only get there anyway because no Rookies or, more pertinently, Experts know the answers.
Ergo, it's no fun for the vast majority of Pro's any more...
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If the dormant pro puzzles were easy to solve, they wouldn't have stayed there for months without a guess. I think there are just two of which I think to know the solution of. It is just the matter of making the game extra boring for the Masters when hardly any pro puzzles find their way up. Maybe you will be able to understand that when you have reached Master level.
As far as I can see you started this thread with the following post:
What do you think about of limiting the maximum time a puzzle to stay in each category?
For example:
Rookie section: max. 4 weeks
Expert section: max. 6 weeks
Professional section: max. 8 weeks
or
Rookie/Expert/Professional: each max. 4 weeks
or
Rookie/Expert/Professional: each max. 3 weeks
or
Rookie/Expert/Professional: each max. 2 weeks
I think, such a limit may bring more movement into the puzzle process, and helps to keep the game participants more attentive to what is happening and to get all of them into the course of the game. As I have to notice by myself sadly, the 'Professional' category is always the one with the fewest rate on puzzles. I get more and more uninterested to follow this nice site, as I have very rarely the opportunity to take part of the game
Too bad your proposal doesn't meet up with your deeds.
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I completely understand your situation. I experience the same in the Professional category since a long time.
I think it isn't really fair to point out my 18 months old proposal, which has been rejected in the following conversation in this thread.
If it doesn't seem too bad after all, why not tell all players about it or set up the site, that it works automatically (which seems technically feasible but time-consuming).
Do you really think it's necessary to deal personally, when it comes to the leisure activities of a few interested people who are looking for fun and enjoyment in their fields of interest?
My focus is on the matter, and the lively participation in this thread shows that the few players are obviously very interested in the fact that more movement is coming into play.
If I would had acted according to my proposal alone and not all other players, we would now have around 30 puzzles in the Professional section and 100 more puzzles in the Masters section.
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I can't see what would have been wrong with that. But just feel free to proceed as you like, chacun à son gout.
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Then easily Professional- and Masters sections could get merged. With only 30 puzzles, the professional section is completely uninteresting and unnecessary. Perhaps the best solution with such few active players
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Then easily Professional- and Masters sections could get merged. With only 30 puzzles, the professional section is completely uninteresting and unnecessary. Perhaps the best solution with such few active players
It was my suggestion to create the Masters section, and to be honest I have had regrets ever since. The problem is that the present Masters are really very very good and used to solve most of the Pro puzzles so quickly that average members didn't get a chance to ask questions. For those Masters who enjoy seting new puzzles that was fine, but for some others it leaves them very little of interest on the site. One Master now spends his time solving Balck Hole stuff.
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Then easily Professional- and Masters sections could get merged. With only 30 puzzles, the professional section is completely uninteresting and unnecessary. Perhaps the best solution with such few active players
It was my suggestion to create the Masters section, and to be honest I have had regrets ever since. The problem is that the present Masters are really very very good and used to solve most of the Pro puzzles so quickly that average members didn't get a chance to ask questions. For those Masters who enjoy seting new puzzles that was fine, but for some others it leaves them very little of interest on the site. One Master now spends his time solving Balck Hole stuff.
I personally believe, you had quite a very good idea and the right decision has been made at this time, as there were many more players active. If I checked correctly, now around 4 Masters and 5-6 Professionals are regularly guessing at this site
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When I met fromwien in February, I told him I have some ideas. Well, I still have some ideas but I am not managing my time very wisely (let's put it that way) so AutoPuzzles is not at the forefront at the moment.
I think
- we would need to talk to those who quit in the last 5 years and ask them - why they left? If they are like Carnut, then we have a problem, but let me get back to that
- The site floats around aimlessly. I believe the lack of an editor (coming back to that in a minute) means that the site is a bit stuck.
- I believe it's very difficult for newcomers to realise what's going on.
- We would need somebody (preferrably not me, because that would be a bit tragic) who could spend, let's say 1-2 hours a week with the site. Update the front page, make our social media platforms more exciting (post some puzzles there, don't let anybody comment, but encourage them to visit the site).
- once we did all of this, then we could have a social media campaign to invite people, like we are far better than any pub quiz
Okay, this was me, very quickly. Dissect it freely :)
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I didn't realise we had any social media platforms! I'm also concerned that if we get a large influx of new members , the site will lose its friendly ambience. Plus of course we're running out of solvable puzzles. ;D
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The nature of the puzzles has changed fairly radically over the last few years. The vast majority of the cars I know anything about have already been puzzled (many more than once!) so the emphasis has switched to more vintage puzzles, something I know little about.
And as I said in a PM to nicanary, many long-time members have disappeared as I believe once they become Professionals they hit a brick wall and can't answer very many puzzles at all. They can no longer participate on any board so just pack their bags and leave; e.g. Djetset - and me..
The only way to allow many of our longer-term members back in would be to change all the boards and categories so that puzzlers can participate after achieving far fewer points than the current system allows. Also I would prefer to see the Masters category abandoned and change all the Masters back to Pro's again so they can have a lot more fun too.
We've haemorrhaged nearly all our longer term members; they're still there on the members list but they never log on any more. And whilst we do see new members not very many of them have the vast knowledge of those who've made it all the way to the Masters, so disappear after a few weeks.
I don't know how much longer the site will last without changes, which might be too late to retrieve any very valuable lost members anyway?
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I would like to remind again on my suggestion for improvement of August 22, 2021:
The situation, as it is:
1) Almost no new puzzle has been solved in the 'rookie category' for months.
2) The puzzles slowly move into the 'Experts-category', where they remain until they are solved or forever.
I just want to remind you again that without more movement, the site will have no future.
However, there will be no shortage of a number of new puzzles. I could guarantee for that. Thousands are left
We really appreciate all your new puzzles fromwien. But as you yourself have said several times, it's important to keep them moving up to give more members the chance of trying to solve them.
I note the Rookies section could almost be renamed the fromwien section; you have puzzles there which have been dormant since January! How about getting them on the move?!
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Unfair as usual, but very easy to reply:
Of the current 104 puzzles in 'Rookie-section' are more than the half of them (54) 'fromwien-puzzles'. Only 3 'fromwien-puzzles' are older than 8 weeks (see attachment)!
But 8 of the other remaining ones of all other players are far older
At least I try my best, to ensure that as many puzzles as possible are available in each guessing group (+/- 100). If I wanted to fill up the Experts group, the entire gameplay would only take place there.
Here is the distribution of my puzzles in relation to the total number per section:
Rookie-section: 54/104
Expert-section: 11/135
'Professional-section': 58/89
'Master-section': 10/306
If I would lift up my puzzles, only half of the puzzles would be available in the rookie-section and only one third left in the professional-section. I could only prevent that, if I keep adding more and more new puzzles. Then the site would loose more and more its variety
To describe it even more complex: It is also my concern or attempt to offer something for every player of every vehicle category (saloons, sports cars, race cars, trucks, buses, micro-cars, etc..) in every puzzle-section
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I would like to remind again on my suggestion for improvement of August 22, 2021:
The situation, as it is:
1) Almost no new puzzle has been solved in the 'rookie category' for months.
2) The puzzles slowly move into the 'Experts-category', where they remain until they are solved or forever.
I just want to remind you again that without more movement, the site will have no future.
However, there will be no shortage of a number of new puzzles. I could guarantee for that. Thousands are left
We really appreciate all your new puzzles fromwien. But as you yourself have said several times, it's important to keep them moving up to give more members the chance of trying to solve them.
I note the Rookies section could almost be renamed the fromwien section; you have puzzles there which have been dormant since January! How about getting them on the move?!
Following your instructions, please check the result after about two weeks:
Here again is the distribution of my puzzles in relation to the total number per section:
Rookie-section: 48/96
Expert-section: 19/154
Professional-section: 44/66
Master-section: 15/305
All that has changed is that there is now a very strong unequal number of puzzles available in the different groups, because most of the other puzzle-setters don't move their puzzles up from Experts to Professionals. No supply of puzzles for Professionals and Masters from Experts. Soon I will only be able to check only my own puzzles in Professionals-section.
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Some thoughts...
Improving the flow of puzzles
Instead of creating a (difficult to enforce) rule that users must move their puzzles up within certain time limits, I propose the following:
- Draft and post official AP "guidelines/suggestions" for creating and moving puzzles (e.g., suggest moving up after 1-4 weeks, depending on interest/activity at current level), making it clear that these are only suggestions;
- Develop internal guidelines to determine when neglected puzzles should be moved up by editors (e.g., send courtesy msg to puzzle creator if puzzle is inactive for ~3 months; move up one level if still inactive after ~6 months, etc);
- Editors should be permitted to use their own judgement, to 'police' puzzles only when they have free time to do so or when an old puzzle has been brought to their attention, etc.
Some existing puzzles have not been moved up, despite having remained dormant for several years. I will gladly volunteer to help clean these up.
Merging levels
I don't see how this will help solve any of the issues.
Distribution of puzzles across various levels
I see no point in trying to maintain an even distribution of puzzles across the various levels. For example, why should we park difficult puzzles at the Rookie level for extended periods of time when there is virtually no interest/activity at that level? Which brings me to...
Rookies
As stated above, there is virtually no interest/activity at this level, which means AP isn't attracting new users. Holding difficult puzzles at this level for long periods of time isn't a solution. It seems obvious, but AP must 1) draw in more first-time visitors, 2) provide the entertainment necessary to retain a percentage of those visitors, and 3) continue to do both of these things in perpetuity. I can't tell you how to bring in more traffic, but I do know that the way to entertain those visitors once they're here is with puzzles featuring clear, full-color images of (newer) cars that are less obscure, yet are still interesting and/or visually appealing.
The Black Hole
This is a terrible name that suggests the puzzles contained therein are hopelessly unsolvable. (Yes, I realize that some of them are.) It should be renamed to "Double Points Puzzles" or something similar, with a focus on opportunity as opposed to hopelessness. And any BH puzzles that have been rendered unsolvable by missing images and disappearing creators should be removed.
And lastly...
"Mystery" puzzles
Whenever the solution to a puzzle is a mystery to the puzzle creator, that puzzle should be posted in a separate section titled "Automotive Mysteries" or something similar and should offer triple points. Solving an actual automotive mystery without the benefit of asking unlimited questions is worthy of a greater reward in my opinion. If some information is known to the creator, the puzzle can begin in the ordinary sections until partially solved (for a point) and then be moved to the Automotive Mysteries section.
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FYI the latest new member was Hamkraus who joined in November 2022!!!!!!
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Thanks Wayne. Some good ideas there.
I can see why there is so little interest amongst the Rookies. So many of the puzzles are now very much from bygone eras and the interest generally amongst car enthusiasts for those days is minimal. They are too hard for Rookies - and they do stay there for far too long..
The different levels is a problem. I enjoyed AP immensely when I was a Rookie and loved it when I graduated quite quickly to an Expert. But as a Pro now I can very rarely get involved; so rarely in fact that even when I can I can barely be bothered.. And that is the crux of it for all those who joined in earlier days, say from 2007 to 2016, when we had a huge number of active members. Once they graduated to Pro they lost interest one by one and now we never see them. I know that if we didn't have levels the same really knowledgeable players would answer all the puzzles, but frankly it's better that way than them all languishing forever in the lower boards until everyone's lost interest in them.
Some of the Editors are very rarely (or never) on here any more, so I would be happy to promote someone like gte to Editor status and then he can join in discussions about the future and would be given the power to enact some of his ideas, like jogging posters to move puzzles or even move or remove some of them himself.
What about it Editors?
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I would welcome Wayne as an editor. He puts a lot into this site.
BTW as you may know I have asked the main culprit to move some puzzles which are blocking the Experts, but he knows they will be solved quickly in the pros and is loathe to take action.
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I would appreciate gte4289 becoming an editor.
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I would welcome Wayne as an editor. He puts a lot into this site.
BTW as you may know I have asked the main culprit to move some puzzles which are blocking the Experts, but he knows they will be solved quickly in the pros and is loathe to take action.
Isn't the idea on AP to solve puzzles though?! I really can't get my head around people posting puzzles they are reluctant for anyone to solve!
It's like this blurring of pictures so people can't see them properly. Some I can't even look at. I know difficult puzzles can be more fun but what's the point in actually stopping people from being able to see them?!
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It's like this blurring of pictures so people can't see them properly. Some I can't even look at. I know difficult puzzles can be more fun but what's the point in actually stopping people from being able to see them?!
I strongly agree! I enjoy working on puzzles that are difficult to solve due to the obscurity of the vehicle, but it's frustrating when the difficulty arises from not knowing what the puzzle vehicle even looks like.
I keep reminding myself that puzzlers are free to create puzzles in any way they see fit, and that we're free to choose which puzzles to solve and which to ignore. However, it can be incredibly frustrating when the biggest offender is also one of the most prolific puzzlers.
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Some of the Editors are very rarely (or never) on here any more, so I would be happy to promote someone like gte to Editor status and then he can join in discussions about the future and would be given the power to enact some of his ideas, like jogging posters to move puzzles or even move or remove some of them himself.
What about it Editors?
I would welcome Wayne as an editor. He puts a lot into this site.
I would appreciate gte4289 becoming an editor.
Thank you all. I would be happy to join the team.
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With following "gte4289-suggestions" I absolutely cannot deal with:
Develop internal guidelines to determine when neglected puzzles should be moved up by editors (e.g., send courtesy msg to puzzle creator if puzzle is inactive for ~3 months; move up one level if still inactive after ~6 months, etc);
Editors should be permitted to use their own judgement, to 'police' puzzles only when they have free time to do so or when an old puzzle has been brought to their attention, etc.
It seems to be a phenomenon of the times that instead of simple, democratic rules for everyone, it would be better to authorize some people to take individual actions towards other people.
Would it then be obligatory for the puzzle-creator to take a puzzle to the next level if an editor points that out? Or do she/he have to deal with the editor about it? Or does it the editor on his own if the puzzle-creator won't do it by himself? I'm looking forward to being able to follow these special actions as an outside observer, as I will immediately delete my account (perhaps to the delight of some fellow players), if such individual rules will come up.
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„Back to the past“ or „Back to the future“?
Unfortunately, everyone who has been playing here for 15 years or more has neither recognized the signs of the times nor the courage and willpower to make changes. But a lot has changed in the last 15 years, which should have been responded to:
1) The automobile has taken on a different status in public. AutoPuzzles-site can't correct that, but we have to bravely face the perception
2) The attempt to introduce young people to automobile history is in its infancy and is sometimes carried out only half-hearted. You can only have a very limited effect on this with AutoPuzzles, but you are simply confronted with this unpleasant situation
3) For everyone who has been playing for 15 years or more, all questions and most of the players (+/- 25) are familiar. For rookies, including myself as I have only been playing for more than two and a half years, there is a huge barrier to getting into the game. At first I didn't recognize any puzzle-object, even though I've been in the automotive scene for a very long time. The entry level is far too high. The puzzle-vehicles are completely uninteresting for rookies. If you just want to join in for the good mood or evening entertainment, you have no chance of guessing. Why?
Because no real rookie puzzles are offered. Almost every player chooses puzzles that should withstand all levels. Why? Because the few active players are gathered at the professionals and masters level. And you know in advance that mostly the puzzles will end up there.
In addition, most of the few players are extremely automobile-infected that usually they don't think, that the puzzles are as difficult, sending rookies cold shivers down the spines.
4) Why did you lose so many professionals? I'm happy to tell you: For months I only had around 20 ancient puzzles at my disposal because nothing came along except my own puzzles, which, among other things, helped only "gte4289" promoted to the Masters. So much for balance, another factor of democracy that I miss here more and more.
5) Attractiveness of the site? Every young puzzler I would encourage to play doesn't like the old-fashioned design of the site at all. A matter of taste. Of course, if you've been used to the site for 15 or more years, this won't matter. But you shouldn't be surprised that young people aren't taking part.
6) After a certain period of getting used to it, rookies find themselves faced with overpowering long-time-players who they believe, they can never defeat and give up. Why? Because the long-time-players use question parameters that match their databases, they have built up over the years, which means they can reach their goal quickly.
7) It is no longer a game played by pure car enthusiasts, but rather by people interested in cars, who have spent years browsing the Internet with a lot of effort and meticulousness, finding all sorts of pages with car information, that you cannot find in any literature. I still approach solving the puzzles using simple means. With my own knowledge and an huge archive of books and magazines. But the website hunters are far superior to me. I can't keep up with them. Maybe also a reason why so many people who are really interested only in cars and hate internet-searching stopped playing?
The site has developed into an elite car-connoisseur club and stucks there. It's only luck, if within a year a new a player steps up and stays, not just to disappear soon again.
8) "Search by image" changed everything. As far as I can remember, although I'm not confident with the computer-world, this didn't exist 15 years ago.
Criticism of altering images: Haven't editors created rules about pictures can be changed? As long as puzzle-creators stay within these rules, there shouldn't be any problems? If there are any, the editors should simply change the rules. Hardly it can be the puzzle-creators mistake, if he she/he alters the picture within the rules? Or is it?
9) I recently enjoyed watching solved puzzles set by BERTRAND:
The puzzles with the altered images (i.e. from color to black and white) were solved much less often than the other with unaltered images, which were very easy to find using “Search by image”. Strange, right?
Are all players really honest? I could imagine that some rookies, who have less experience of searching on the Internet, will use this unauthorized image search function at some point, to get once some feel of luck.
10) As I pointed out, I have no computer knowledge whatsoever. But: Can’t the use of “artificial intelligence” also help solving puzzles? Is it legal at AutoPuzzles to use it? Is anyone already using “Artificial Intelligence”? Are there any experiences?
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Addendum:
ad 7) The site is called 'AutoPuzzles'. Why you don't allow only automobile-specific questions? Shouldn't the one with the best eye and feeling for design and detail get the point? Sometimes I feel like a geographic teacher. These geographical questions have nothing to do with puzzle-cars. And are annoying. Just like the boring alphabet questions. Then I feel like I'm guessing in a usual quiz show. Nothing to do with cars. Guessing also means landing lucky punches. These are, in particular, most important for rookies and experts, if they try phishing for points in the Professional- and Master-area. Strengthens courage and self-confidence. Isn't it about guessing? Shouldn't have everyone a chance solving a puzzle, even if she/he doesn't have large databases and libraries in the background?
Example: If you have a look at the puzzle 'Wendax 4081', you can see how many suggested questions come up, if you leave out the geographical questions (there were only three, one even from myself). 251 replies, 2781 views. This is the game, how "AutoPuzzles" works for everybody