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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => The Brand-New 2025 Vehicle Identification Board => Topic started by: Djetset on January 22, 2018, 08:24:06 AM
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Fellow Puzzlers, as some of you may have noticed over the years here, I have a strange fascination with the tail lights used at the rear of cars, especially when they are 'taken/borrowed' from one car to use on another (for example, Fiat 850 Spider tail lights used on early Lamborghini Miuras, Ford Cortina Mark I used on the Howet TX, E21 BMW 3-Series on the MVS Venturi, Hillman Hunter on the Bond Bug, and so on).
It may sound odd, but I am now compiling a publication of car tail lamp use, hopefully set for release later this year, containing thousands of examples. Before this publication can be finalized though, I still have a few outstanding mysteries about which cars used which rear lamps, so I will begin to post these here shortly as I am sure that the huge, combined car expertise gathered here at Auto Puzzles may be able to help solve some of these queries.
Until then, however, to help test the water, does any one know which OE car originally used the tail lights pictures below (this shot taken of an ASA 1000 GT) please? They look like NSU TT lamps, but they don't seem to be, and these small round rear lights were used on many other Italian cars (e.g. Alfa Romeo Giulia SS Bertone, OSCA 1600 S Fissore, Bizzarini 5000 GT, Michelotti Maserati 5000 GT, etc.). Any ideas will be very much appreciated, and thank you in advance.
I will post some of my other 'mystery' rear lights here shortly, so please stay tuned in. Thanks again :)
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Definitely not NSU TT.
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Definitely not NSU TT.
Agreed Wendax, and thank for your reply. As these tail lights were first used in at least 1959 (on the Bertone 101-Series Alfa SS); before the NSU existed. The lamps remain a frustrating mystery to me; for the moment at least... ;)!
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I'm not sure why this on-going rear tail light mystery research has been moved into the Rookies puzzle section, as it's not meant to be a points-earning 'regular' Puzzle, so I am moving it back to where it began.
Anyway, to continue with these tail lamp mysteries, does anyone recognize what car this lamp unit is taken from please, as added to the back of an American Amore Cimbria SS kit car? All suggestions welcome, and thank you in advance for your help.
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And another tail lamp mystery, this time fitted to an ASL (Autobacs Sportscar Laboratory) Garaiya, but I suspect taken from a more mainstream production car (possibly Mazda?), but which one?
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And the third one for today; the lovely Apollo 3500 GT, which I guess used an Italian rear light unit (??, turned sideways. The question is, from which car originally though?
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The nearest I can see to the Apollo lights are on the PF Ferrari 250 Cabriolet (see below). There are many upright lights on the rear wings but none quite as close as these.
Are those lights on the ASA the same as the ones on the Allemano Maserati (below?) Still doesn't tell you where they are from though even if they are the same...
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The nearest I can see to the Apollo lights are on the PF Ferrari 250 Cabriolet (see below). There are many upright lights on the rear wings but none quite as close as these.
Are those lights on the ASA the same as the ones on the Allemano Maserati (below?) Still doesn't tell you where they are from though even if they are the same...
Thank you Carnut. I think you might be right about the PF Ferrari 250 Cabriolet rear lights for the Apollo, as they look the same, just mounted sideways for the latter. To the best of my knowledge, the Pininfarina-bodied Lancia Appia Coupe was the main source for these lamp units.
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I wonder if those ASA 1000 lights are from a commercial vehicle rather than a car?
They could be off a bus from the second half of the 1950s?
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And another tail lamp mystery, this time fitted to an ASL (Autobacs Sportscar Laboratory) Garaiya, but I suspect taken from a more mainstream production car (possibly Mazda?), but which one?
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Wow, Alfa 147, of course! How did I miss that one :P Thanks for solving this one Delorean, it's very much appreciated. More tail lights mysteries to follow shortly...
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Another set of mystery tail lights, on the Ares X-Raid G-wagen. Logically they will be taken from another Mercedes-Benz model, but I can't find one that matches. The Ford EcoSport lamps are also similar, but not the same. Any ideas and suggestions very welcome.
Also, I'm not sure why, but this topic seems to have been moved into the Solved section, and I can't seem to move it back into the general area that would seem to be a more logical home for an on-going subject ;)
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And another rear lamp mystery, the Brazilian Aurora 122-C Turbo, in case anyone might know which other car these lights are taken from?
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Anyway, to continue with these tail lamp mysteries, does anyone recognize what car this lamp unit is taken from please, as added to the back of an American Amore Cimbria SS kit car? All suggestions welcome, and thank you in advance for your help.
Those are from a Pontiac Sunbird, circa 1976-1980
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Perfect, thanks for putting me out of my misery on this one Otto :). More mystery tail lamps to follow soon.
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Another tail light mystery that I'm hoping a wise fellow Puzzler might know the answer to please; what rear lamps did the late 1950s Opperman Unicar Model 'T' use please, as I recognize them, but just can't place them?! Thank you in advance.
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Could be from a 1953 Opel Olympia Rekord:
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Well done Wendax, I think you are right! That's another crossed off my mystery tail light list; thank you ;)
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Does anyone have any idea from which car the real lights for the Japanese Griffon Coupe were sourced from please, as below? Thank you.
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Another rare light query for you all. Which main car do you think the tail lamps of the Francis Lombardi FL-1 are taken from please, as they look like they could be taken from at least three different Italian cars of the 1970s? Thank you for your thoughts.
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And another tail light mystery, Any idea which lamps the EVEX 1 used please?
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The ones on the Lombardi FL-1 look like they're from an Alfa S;pider Kamm tail:
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Another tail light frustration for me as my knowledge of mainstream American sedans of the 1970s and 80s simply isn't as good as it should be. So...
Does anyone recognize the source of the rear lamps attached to this Seltzer Willow kit car please? Thank you.
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Another tail light frustration for me as my knowledge of mainstream American sedans of the 1970s and 80s simply isn't as good as it should be. So...
Does anyone recognize the source of the rear lamps attached to this Seltzer Willow kit car please? Thank you.
1973-78 Toyota Corona Sedan. Their design makes the metal trim appear to be more excessive than it really is when viewed from higher angles.
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...does anyone recognize what car this lamp unit is taken from please, as added to the back of an American Amore Cimbria SS kit car? All suggestions welcome, and thank you in advance for your help.
1977-80 Pontiac Sunbird
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Does anyone have any idea from which car the real lights for the Japanese Griffon Coupe were sourced from please, as below? Thank you.
1966-69 Datsun Sunny 1000 Sedan (B10)
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Another set of mystery tail lights, on the Ares X-Raid G-wagen. Logically they will be taken from another Mercedes-Benz model, but I can't find one that matches. The Ford EcoSport lamps are also similar, but not the same. Any ideas and suggestions very welcome.
North American market GLC
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Anyway, to continue with these tail lamp mysteries, does anyone recognize what car this lamp unit is taken from please, as added to the back of an American Amore Cimbria SS kit car? All suggestions welcome, and thank you in advance for your help.
Those are from a Pontiac Sunbird, circa 1976-1980
So Otto was right then!
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Anyway, to continue with these tail lamp mysteries, does anyone recognize what car this lamp unit is taken from please, as added to the back of an American Amore Cimbria SS kit car? All suggestions welcome, and thank you in advance for your help.
Those are from a Pontiac Sunbird, circa 1976-1980
So Otto was right then!
Yep! But I didn't see his response up there or I wouldn't have reposted it.
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Thank you everyone that has contributed to the recent flurry of tail light source information. This has been hugely helpful and is very much appreciated :D.
I still have a long list of other tail lamp mysteries, so here are three more that have perplexed me for a while; the Badsey Bullet, Bazlen GT4 (Ford Sierra Sapphire perhaps?) and the Enfield/Neorion Chicago). All thoughts most welcome. Thanks.
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Sorry, but yet another tail light query, just in case anyone knows which lamp units the late 1960s American Banjo GT kit car used please? Thanks.
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...and another, this time the Zender Vision 3, if anyone has any ideas where the rear lights are 'borrowed' from? Thank you.
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Sorry, but yet another tail light query, just in case anyone knows which lamp units the late 1960s American Banjo GT kit car used please? Thanks.
1960-61 Mercury Comet
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the Badsey Bullet
Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40
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...and another, this time the Zender Vision 3, if anyone has any ideas where the rear lights are 'borrowed' from? Thank you.
1983-90 Alfa Romeo Spider
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... Bazlen GT4 (Ford Sierra Sapphire perhaps?)
Do you have an image showing the tail lights?
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That's some top-class tail lamp recognition! Thanks GTE4289, you seem to have a knack for these, and all very helpful.
Sadly I can't seem to find a rear shot of the Balzen GT4 (which would be kind of helpful), but from the side profile, Ford Sierra Sapphire tail lights seem to be the right shape.
While we're on a roll, any ideas about the original donor cars for any of the following please; the Brazilian Aurora 122C Turbo, the Covini B24 and T40, plus the Chris Field Austin Maxi-based Aquila prototype, as below; Thanks.
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...the Covini B24
Looks like Alfa again:
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:thumbsup: How did I miss that one! Thanks again GTE, you're very good to this. Here are a few more tall light mysteries that I am still stuck on; all ideas welcome. Thanks again.
Stutz Bear Royal Guard, Koenig C62 (VAG something?, Ferguson Formula R5 (Vauxhall something?), Zimmer Quick Silver.
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The Stutz rear lights might be from the Alfa Romeo Alfetta:
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Zimmer Quick Silver.
Pontiac Fiero, which also serves as the basis of this car. The apparent difference in shape is actually caused by the overlying bumper. The fact that they are mounted farther apart allows for the 'dip' in the center of the trunk lid (which isn't as intrusive as it appears to be when closed).
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A belated thank you Wendax and GTE for solving the Stutz and Zimmer rear light mysteries.
Here are four more that I am a bit stuck on; the Sbarro Windhound (Fiat 127 Fiorino perhaps?), Scapula Rolls-Royce, Scagliette Ferrari 412 Cabrio and De Tomaso Panetera 7X, just in case anyone has any ideas please? Thanks.
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Scagliette Ferrari 412 Cabrio
I used to spend a great deal of time around this car, but never gave any thought to the origin of the taillights. To be honest, this was the least interesting car in the stable, and so I never gave it much thought at all.
Anyway, I think these are probably Alfetta taillights, flipped upside-down and swapped left to right.
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Scagliette Ferrari 412 Cabrio
I used to spend a great deal of time around this car, but never gave any thought to the origin of the taillights. To be honest, this was the least interesting car in the stable, and so I never gave it much thought at all.
Anyway, I think these are probably Alfetta taillights, flipped upside-down and swapped left to right.
Thanks for your thought. I'd narrowed the Ferrari tail lights down to either a fifth-generation Autobianchi A112, or the Alfa Alfetta as you suggest, which I think they probably are.
I've got a few more tail light mysteries to post shortly, so watch this space as all input welcome, as are any ideas about the Sbarro Windhound, De Tomaso Panetera 7X, etc., as above. Thanks.
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As promised, here is my latest batch of five more tail light mysteries, in case anyone has any ideas about the original source car please for any pf these. Today I offer the following delights; the Carrozzeria Watanabe Flying Pegasus, Glenfrome Delta, Pegaso Z-102 Series II by Saoutchik,the Consulier/Mosler Raptor family and Irmscher GT prototype. Thank you.
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The Irmscher rear lights look like those of the Mitsubishi Colt C10:
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The Irmscher rear lights look like those of the Mitsubishi Colt C10:
Dooh! Of course, how did I miss that one!! Thank you Wendax, useful as always.
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the Carrozzeria Watanabe Flying Pegasus
1962 Ford Galaxie 500
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the Consulier/Mosler Raptor family
1978-87 Chevrolet El Camino
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Great stuff, thanks GTE.
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Another batch of tail light mysteries, so any and all ideas very welcome, thanks. So, today we have the Zagato 132 Aster, the Zundapp Janus, Brubaker Box, WM P70 and the Caccia Custom Cars Ghepardo...
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I think the Zündapp Janus rear lights were bespoke, as it was a mass produced car (6,900 units built).
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I think the Zündapp Janus rear lights were bespoke, as it was a mass produced car (6,900 units built).
Thanks Wendax, I think you are probably right as I've found a number of tail lights that look similar to the Zundapp units (such as the Ford Vedette below) but nothing quite the same. I appreciate your thoughts though.
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Caccia Ghepardo : Chrysler Sebring Convertible.
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The Brubaker Box used 1972 Datsun 620 pick-up tail lights (commonly accepted fact; not a guess)
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Caccia Ghepardo : Chrysler Sebring Convertible.
Of course! How did I miss that one. Thanks Oko, much appreciated.
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The Brubaker Box used 1972 Datsun 620 pick-up tail lights (commonly accepted fact; not a guess)
Useful information, thank you GTE. More tail light mysteries to follow shortly.
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And another group of bothersome rear lights that I'm uncertain of their roots, in case anyone knows otherwise. Thanks in advance, and this batch includes the Colani VW Polo and Ferrari Daytona (sorry, I can't find a better rear shot), Stallion trike, Condor Stinger, Pisa Scorpion and 1956 Boano Ferrari 250 GT Coupe Speciale.
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Think the Condor Stinger ones are from a Ford Capri Mk2:
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Think the Condor Stinger ones are from a Ford Capri Mk2:
Thanks Carnut and well spotted. Being American, I guess the Condor used the US-market Mercury Capri lamps, which are basically the same as the German-built Ford model.
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The Colani Daytona rear lights might be from the Mercedes-Benz 220 SE "Heckflosse":
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I think the Zündapp Janus rear lights were bespoke, as it was a mass produced car (6,900 units built).
Thanks Wendax, I think you are probably right as I've found a number of tail lights that look similar to the Zundapp units (such as the Ford Vedette below) but nothing quite the same. I appreciate your thoughts though.
I thought they looked rather similar to some Borgward ones:
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I think the Zündapp Janus rear lights were bespoke, as it was a mass produced car (6,900 units built).
Thanks Wendax, I think you are probably right as I've found a number of tail lights that look similar to the Zundapp units (such as the Ford Vedette below) but nothing quite the same. I appreciate your thoughts though.
I thought they looked rather similar to some Borgward ones:
You might be right.
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A belated thank you for the most recent mystery tail light answers, especially the Borgward units on the Zundapp as I'd seen these somewhere else before.
Here are a few more rear lamp mysteries, for the TVR 420 Saloon prototype, Dacia 1325 Liberta, Vignale Daihatsu Sport 3-box 1966 proto, Bulat Universal/Pick-Up and 1978 Dome Zero concept. Thanks.
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I have a feeling those of the TVR 420 Saloon are from the Talbot Tagora:
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I have a feeling those of the TVR 420 Saloon are from the Talbot Tagora:
Oh, of course. Thank you Carnut, another mystery solved.
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1978 Dome Zero Concept seems the same rear lights tan 1974 Gresko GT
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Dacia Liberta 1325 seems to match with Citroen CX Orphee Cabrio or Renault 18
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Thanks Oguererob, the Dacia tail lamps do seem to be the same as the Renault 18, though the Orphee CX uses Citroen Visa II lights, turned upside down.
Do you know which car the Gresko GT sourced it lamps from? Thanks again.
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1978 Dome Zero Concept seems the same rear lights tan 1974 Gresko GT
These do not look like the same lights to me.
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Same with me, I even doubt that the Dacia Liberta really has Renault 18 rear lights.
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Ahead of posting another batch of tail light mysteries soon, here is a summary of the rear lamps that are still yet to be resolved so far, with an image of each car already posted here earlier. Thank you again for your contributions so far, and all ideas welcome re the outstanding cars below:
-ASA 1000 (+ Bertone Alfa Romeo 101/105 SS, Maserati 5000 GT, etc.)(possibly from a 1950s Italian truck?)
-Aurora 122-C Turbo (from Brazil)
-Bazlen GT4 (possibly Ford Sierra Sapphire sedan)
-Boano Ferrari 250 GT Coupe Speciale (1956)
-Bulat Universal/Pick-Up
-Chris Field Aquila Austin Maxi prototype (1973)
-Colani VW Polo 'Turbo' (possibly VW Scirocco II?)
-Covani T40 coupe
-De Tomaso Pantera 7X prototype (possibly mid-1970s American?)
-Dome Zero (1978)
-Enfield Chicago sedan
-EVEX 1 Porsche 911 + various Zagato (Rover TCZ, F132 Aster, Volvo 3000GTZ, etc.)(poss. Mercedes T2 L 408 van?)
-Ferguson Formula R5 prototype (1966)
-Glenfrome Delta
-Gresko GT (1974)
-Pegaso Z-102 by Saoutchik (+ shared with Gregoire Sport by Chapron)
-Pisa Scorpion
-Sbarro Windhound
-Scapala Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow
-Thoroughbred Stallion trike
-Vignale Daihatsu Sport 3-box coupe (1966 prototype)
-WM P70 (and P69 uses the same lights)
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I'm not sure those Glenfrome lights are even from a car.
I'd swear they used to fit those in the 70s/80s to caravans/motor homes/even buses!
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I'm not sure those Glenfrome lights are even from a car.
I'd swear they used to fit those in the 70s/80s to caravans/motor homes/even buses!
Yes Carnut, I agree, they do look familiar, but possibly from a commercial vehicle, bus, caravan or something, just like a number of other 1970s British specialist cars. I don't want to swamp AP with too many mystery tail lights, but I've got a stack more, so I'll upload the latest batch shortly. Thanks.
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Apologies in advance, but here is another lump of head-scratching rear light source mysteries. They are:
Saab 94 Facett, Rinspeed iChange and E-Go Rocket, Soelctria Sunrise (same as iChange?), Pininfarina Merc-Benz 300 SEL Coupe, Vector Avtech WX-3 and Triumph TR250 K. Enjoy...
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And here's a few more to help occupy a wet weekend. This time its a Porsche 550 (#0015), Porsche Studebaker 548 (possibly unique to this prototype?), Ilinga AF-2, Thunder Ranch Riot, Image Chimo, Jawa Chic/Ital Jet T2-T4 and Ducarme Peugeot 204. Thanks.
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I thought at first those on the Saab Facett were from a Triumph Dolomite, but whilst they are very similar it's the indicators which are outermost on the Saab but the reflectors on the Triumph. Maybe they're from an early version than I can't find?
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I thought at first those on the Saab Facett were from a Triumph Dolomite, but whilst they are very similar it's the indicators which are outermost on the Saab but the reflectors on the Triumph. Maybe they're from an early version than I can't find?
Yes, I can see the similarity to the Facett and Dolomite tail light units, but the Saab was made before the Triumph existed. The Facett lamps look very familiar, but frustratingly I just can not place them, as with each of the other remaining vehicles! :(
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The Vector WX-3 lights are from the 1990-92 Nissan Stanza.
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Thanks GTE, I wouldn’t have thought of that Nissan Stanza model as it wasn’t sold in Europe so too easily overlooked.
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Thanks GTE, I wouldn’t have thought of that Nissan Stanza model as it wasn’t sold in Europe so too easily overlooked.
I sold these for a living back in '92. Horrible cars.
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Could those PF Mercedes coupé lights be Ford Capri units again? MkIII this time?
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Could those PF Mercedes coupé lights be Ford Capri units again? MkIII this time?
No, this can't be the case sadly as the Pininfarina Mercedes from 1969 pre-dates the hatchback Capri from 1974. The lights do look a bit Ford-like though. The mystery remains...
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The PF Mercedes lights are from the Fiat 124 Sport Spider
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Ilinga lights appear to be from ca. 1975 Mercedes-Benz SE/SEL, but framed in a way make them appear different. See my poor illustration below:
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Thanks for the useful updates GTE, both of which make perfect sense. Any further thoughts on any of the other rear light mysteries very welcome.
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Another batch of six tail light mysteries to help keep you entertained/mystified in these challenging times, with many more to follow soon. Thank you in advance for your thoughts and ideas re the original source for these, plus any of the other previous mysteries that are still unresolved, and have a Happy Easter.
Today I have;
- Rover T3 (the original 1953 prototype)
- TMC Costin
- Barnardi USA kit car (look a little like 1980 Mercury Capri lamps, but not wide enough)?
- Viotti-bodied Delahaye 135
- Triton Trike 3-wheeler
- Warlock Sports Roadster