Topic: AutoPuzzlers - I Need Your Help

[Otto Puzzell]

I’ve long held the opinion that the threshold for promotion from Rookie to Expert at AutoPuzzles is to low. Often, a new member will blow through the rookie ranks to the expert level in a day or less. The result is a preponderance of Pro-level puzzlers, and, often, a dearth of  Rookies. Often as not, we have only one or two active Rookies on board.

As you know, rookies can reply at will to Pro-level and Rookie-level puzzles, but Pro’s cannot cross over into the rookie pool. Having crossed the 5-puzzles-solved threshold, they are locked out of at least half the puzzles on the board, and the thin ranks of Rookies does little to cull the herd of RookiePuzzles. We end up moving the rookie puzzles to the Expert ranks, which is a reflection of where the overwhelming majority of our membership resides.

So, I’d like to propose raising the threshold from 5 solutions to a higher number – I believe 25 is a good measure. This will, I think balance the board with more members capable of answering the rookie posts.

On a related note, I was thinking a rank of AutoPuzzler Super License Holder would be a cool addition. Grob, Paul, and others with hundreds of solved puzzles to their credit would be granted such a license straight away. To keep that area from becoming superheated and pulling members from the meat of the board – the Pro puzzles - a “1 solution per week” rule could be used. In other words, a Super License holder could post an answer in that section of the board, and if it is correct, not post again in that section, within the time limit. This might also require a “one active answer at a time” rule, so that multiple puzzles are answered concurrently by a Super License holder, resulting in a multi-week hiatus.

As always, I’m interested in the input of the board population at large.

[Allan L]

The alternative might be to introduce a class between Rookie and Pro.
In Rallying we used to have three classes:
Expert
Semi-Expert
Novice.
The Novice became a Semi-Expert quite easily (a couple of class awards per year would do it)
The Semi-Expert graduated to Expert after rather more success.
So you could leave the Rookie class alone and introduce a class which those who'd solved 5 would have to advance to, but which those who rank as Experts couldn't access. Puzzles unsolved by Rookies could then be moved there first and then to Expert after a decent interval.
Experts could be defined by either total number solved or a rate of solving (whichever got you there first!), perhaps more than 2 per week (but with a minimum period of ten weeks to avoid promoting someone who has one lucky week) or more than 100 total.

[@re]

Two good alternatives. I like some ideas from both - at first I thought it could be a bit much to add another puzzle category, but after a bit of thought I think that might be a good idea. The downside of it is that members that have already been promoted to Experts will have to be degraded to Semi-Experts (a somewhat clumsy term). But I like the idea of having another stop for the unsolved puzzles before they reach the Experts section.

I also think that even if a category between Rookies and Experts was added, it would be a good idea to raise the promotion number from 5, but maybe not as high as 25 if there's an intermediate category. Maybe 15?

The idea of a Super Licence Holder sounds nice - were you thinking that there would be separate puzzles in that area? The idea of limiting the number of answers active at any given time is good as long as the members offering puzzles are available to respond at all times - if not things could get quite boring. I also take it that you were thinking that it would not be "one active answer at a time" all over the board, but just one in each section?

[porridgehead]

I agree with raising the expert limit, especially since it will bump me back to novice!  I also agree that there should be another level above expert. (Oracle? Vishnu? ZenMaster? Top Dawg? BAMF?)

I think there should be an intermediary step when moving a puzzle from rookie to expert. (Quasi-pert? Semi-pert? NeilPert? or maybe just  Pert, because it's not an Ex-Pert yet. Ummm... yeah... I got nuthin'.) In that section, any expert who has not attained the BAMF status can guess.  If the puzzle languishes there for a stated period of time (say, one month), it is moved to the Ex-Pert area where the Top Dawgs can have at it and eviscerate it, leaving only bleached bones as evidence that they have been there. That way, it give us ordinary 'experts' a chance to become a Top Dawg without placing unfair restrictions on the true Keepers Of The Lore.

Naturally, anything posted directly to the Ex-Pert section is fair game for anybody.

I really don't like the time limit restriction on the ZenMasters. We want to cultivate them, and a restriction like that would only make them move on and seek more fertile grounds. Besides,  I think that Autopuzzles would suffer as a whole if we restricted them to a solitary guess per week. I have learned so much from Paul and Grob that I would be saddened if their voices were squelched to such a degree.

[@re]

Besides,  I think that Autopuzzles would suffer as a whole if we restricted them to a solitary guess per week. I have learned so much from Paul and Grob that I would be saddened if their voices were squelched to such a degree.

Agree!

[Ultra]

IMHO....

Rookie

Expert <20 puzzles?>

Professional <100 or more>

New catergories can be created.  Let me know what you guys want.

[Otto Puzzell]

Besides,  I think that Autopuzzles would suffer as a whole if we restricted them to a solitary guess per week. I have learned so much from Paul and Grob that I would be saddened if their voices were squelched to such a degree.

The intent would be to limit traffic in the super level - not everywhere.

[Ray B.]

Basically, I agree with Karn's proposition: 3 categories, culminating with the Super-Experts or whatever we call them. A fourth category between Rookies and Pros is too much. A 20 or 25 limit to become a Pro suits me. I agree not to put a time restriction for the Super Experts. But  the level can be set high enough (maybe 150) so that it doesn't get overcrowded.

While we're at it, how come there are only 3 votes for that poll?

[Otto Puzzell]

Very good question...

[Ultra]

If I can keep a connection tonight on my shitty network card I will create three categories.  Rookie will threshold to experts at 25 and professionals will require 200 solved puzzles.

Nobodies Solved puzzle count is going down around here boys.  Get crackin'.


 

[Otto Puzzell]

Excellent!

[Ultra]

Excellent!

IMHO, after a post sits in the Expert level five or so days unsolved it then gets moved to the Professional level so those folks with super high puzzle counts get their crack at them.  I have not promoted everyone eligible back down to Rookie level, Karn, that is your baby to help me finish..  I have also not locked the pros out of replying to the Expert Level puzzles yet and do not intend to do so until I hear more from the membership on that idea.  The most affected by this change could speak up without my complaint:

Grob?  PJ?

 

[Ray B.]

It has sense to create a category of Super-Puzzlers (the Professionals) as a reward for the best of us.

But it has no sense at all to create a separate category of Professional Puzzles if all categories are open to these pros. So the Professionals should follow the common rule: they can only answer in their own category. You see what I mean? And, same as for the two lowers categories, those who posted the puzzles would upgrade them whenever they want (I do it myself after one month unsolved). Now, to avoid our two pros to be deprived of puzzles, I suggest that everyone picks some of his toughest puzzles and move them to the Pro Category. I'm going to do so.
I know this is hard for our 2 promoted Professionals but it's the only way. Or else.... there's is an honorific Professional rank, but only 2 categories of puzzles, as before, Rookie and Experts puzzles.

I am waiting for you comments.

[@re]

There should be at least 3 Professionals. SeaLion has solved over 200 puzzles.

On another note, shouldn't Experts with less than 25 solved puzzles be relegated to Rookies again? I understand how that could feel a bit unfair, but on the other hand so many of our newer Experts are so good at solving puzzles that they'd be back with the Experts in no time - plus we'd get a chance to clean up a bit among the Rookie puzzles.

[Paul Jaray]

Hi guys...I'm not much around these days so I will accept what you decide with joy...I like this place so much, and, yes, sometimes it's just a matter of "being in the right place at the right time " when the rookie's puzzles come upstairs....the time-limit will cause me some problems because I really don't know if I can get access to the net as I would, and when I can, there are many things to do, and of course I've no-one of my books here in the desert! But it doesn't matter if that's the decision...I'm collecting my best puzzles for the time I'll be back and ....I'll be back!

[Ultra]

The Pros have been locked out of replying to Expert level puzzles.  I think the Experts owe the pros a big thank you for seeing us through this transition and for all the automotive esoterica they have contributed to us here at AP.  Please help to make sure PJ SeaLion and Grob know about the change and why it occurred. 

Thanks guys.

Ultra

[Paul Jaray]

I found it now....I've got another suggest, if the pro puzzles are the ones unsolved for months, I think they will remain unsolved ..if the experts gets the rookie puzzles, I think they will be pro soon...so, why do not give a different score to the puzzles? I mean, if I find out where the hell does the monster-jaguar-e-type @re posted some times ago it's a bit frustrating get one point, as if someone easily gets the Whaddyacallit #102 puzzle! It's just my opinion...

[@re]

I've promoted several of my puzzles to keep the Pros able to keep guessing, as I am under the impression that the new system should work this way: The puzzles that are not solved in the category where they were originally posted, are moved up one category after a while, until they end up in the Pro category. This means that the people with the most expertise get to solve them if nobody else can.

Is it a possibility to award two points for each Pro puzzle solved?

Also, I just promoted the Lombardi Coccinella to the Pro section and PJ strangely solved it straight away - but now the only option on the bottom left of my screen is "Lock/Unlock" instead of "Move topic" - which means I can't move it into Solved AutoPuzzles. Does anybody know why?

And one last thing, Mr. Jaray: It frustrates me to hear that Ray B's #102 really is that easy  - I have no idea what it is...

[Ultra]

I've promoted several of my puzzles to keep the Pros able to keep guessing, as I am under the impression that the new system should work this way: The puzzles that are not solved in the category where they were originally posted, are moved up one category after a while, until they end up in the Pro category. This means that the people with the most expertise get to solve them if nobody else can.

Is it a possibility to award two points for each Pro puzzle solved?

Also, I just promoted the Lombardi Coccinella to the Pro section and PJ strangely solved it straight away - but now the only option on the bottom left of my screen is "Lock/Unlock" instead of "Move topic" - which means I can't move it into Solved AutoPuzzles. Does anybody know why?

And one last thing, Mr. Jaray: It frustrates me to hear that Ray B's #102 really is that easy  - I have no idea what it is...

I can fix the thread moving issue.  Should be done here in the next few minutes.  The amount of points awarded for a puzzle is up to the creator of the puzzle.  If you guys want to give more points for Pro puzzles it is up to you the members to decide that.

[Ray B.]

True, Mr. Jaray ! Do you mean my wdyci-102 is too easy ?
I fully agree with @re and I did the same

I've promoted several of my puzzles to keep the Pros able to keep guessing, as I am under the impression that the new system should work this way: The puzzles that are not solved in the category where they were originally posted, are moved up one category after a while, until they end up in the Pro category.
Is it a possibility to award two points for each Pro puzzle solved?

I don't mind this 2 points idea for the ProPuzzles, but it may help the Experts to catch the pros sooner as they can solve 2 points puzzles in this section PLUS 1 point puzzles in their own.

[Paul Jaray]

I'll be glad to tell you, but it will be unfair...I can only say that its name could be somehow referred to its engine but at the same time it is completely far away from that.
Coming back to this topic, the thing is that if the only privilege to be a pro is that we can only see experts get points from 25 to 200, it would be hard to ...keep the distance! In this comunity I see a lot of experts in many fields, 3-wheelers, american racers, sportscars...it is really not easy to let a puzzle pass through all these filters...and after all , what you get is the same point that will get the one who will solve an ex-rookie puzzle! How many of you, are able to solve at least the 50% of them? I think all! That's why there is a race when they get promoted! In this way, the rookie puzzles give easy points to the exprts till they became pro and the pro puzzles will be the ones we all are starting to hate! I'm not good with long speeches, and I hope that these words will be read in the right way! And once again this is just my humble opinion...

[Paul Jaray]

Ok, it took to much for me to write that reply....

but it may help the Experts to catch the pros sooner as they can solve 2 points puzzles in this section PLUS 1 point puzzles in their own.

True, but it also it means that you identify a puzzle that nobody was able to get previously.... but that's it, if you all agree with these rules, I'm fine with that!
P.S. the puzzle #102 is not so easy, I know that car because it is in a book I use to read often!

[@re]

It again comes back to the fact that if a puzzle is left unsolved for far too long, we'll have to offer clues. Most of mine get solved eventually when clues are offered, but a lucky few remains for you all to hate

We could also, theoretically, get a situation where an Expert who could solve a newly promoted Rookie puzzle would wait until it reached Pro status, because then he'd get two points for solving it instead of just the one. But I don't really think people would risk gambling with one safe point, so that's just theory. The reason why there should be more points for the Pro puzzles is quite simple: The Pro puzzles are the ones that remain unsolved for the longest time, and therefore the toughest. If an Expert solves a Pro puzzle, then he deserves those points.

[Ray B.]

It is a bit unfair, but... Wyoming Bill Kelso wouldn't pay attention. It is a bit unfair, too, to be promoted Pro and so be deprived of the possibility to feast on those tempting, juicy experts puzzles.
But I believe all this will settle in the end. It is the responsability of the experts to take the chance of also posting new puzzles directly in the Pro section -same as we already did in the Expert section. I don't think you're close from being passed, with 350 or so hits.

[Paul Jaray]

Ok than, I'm in!