Topic: Arunas has a car site about finding rare cars.

[Ultra]

This is how he creates some of the content for it:

He finds a tiny, grainy picture of a car, and posts it here at AutoPuzzles. Somebody else ID's the car, gives lots of detail about it, and posts larger, clearer pictures. The cars then show up on his site, with the detail he harvested here. He credits his friends for the content, but doesn't mention AutoPuzzles at all. However, he includes his site's URL in puzzle pics he posts here, and is linking to that site in some of his answers.  Frankly, I think his whole site is derivative of us and what we do here. 

I think it is reprehensible to use this site to bolster his own and I think it is shameful that he doesn't include links to here crediting us as a source.  I would like to know what you guys think of this issue.  Are my feelings within bounds?  Do you guys approve of this?

 

[Paul Jaray]

I must confess that it is one of the reasons why I decided to post my most obscure cars with a mark here.
If He'd like to post my obscure cars there, it's up to him, but at least it will increase also this place, that's why I asked him, if He's going to post them, to use the marked one for the site, and the clear ones for himself. I'll share my unmodified pics with anyone who'd request them.
I also have a huge amount of pics taken from the net, that's why I don't care much if someone take 'mine' (they come from books and magazines and aren't really mine)... what I find a little bit unfair (speaking in general) is looking into 10/20 old magazines, take pictures that are new for the net, cut them, resize them and find somewhere 'my' pic and a 'Hey, look what I've found' comment. 

[Ultra]

I must confess that it is one of the reasons why I decided to post my most obscure cars with a mark here.
If He'd like to post my obscure cars there, it's up to him, but at least it will increase also this place, that's why I asked him, if He's going to post them, to use the marked one for the site, and the clear ones for himself. I'll share my unmodified pics with anyone who'd request them.
I also have a huge amount of pics taken from the net, that's why I don't care much if someone take 'mine' (they come from books and magazines and aren't really mine)... what I find a little bit unfair (speaking in general) is looking into 10/20 old magazines, take pictures that are new for the net, cut them, resize them and find somewhere 'my' pic and a 'Hey, look what I've found' comment. 

Should I ban him for violating our copyrights, willfully and willingly undermining our efforts to bring everyone here the best possible website and, frankly, for showing no customary respect to the users and contributors to this site? 

 I want to.

 

[Arunas]

Whatt a?

[Ultra]

Whatt a?

violating our copyrights, willfully and willingly undermining our efforts to bring everyone here the best possible website and, frankly, for showing no customary respect to the users and contributors to this site

I have been over your site.  You take from this site uncredited information.  I personally own the copyright on this site and if I do not stand up and take actions to protect them than I risk losing those rights according to the laws where I and this site are based.

Do you wish to start crediting this site, on every page you use information you sourced from here, or shall I take other actions to protect my copyright?

The choice is yours.

[Arunas]

He finds a tiny, grainy picture of a car, and posts it here at AutoPuzzles. Somebody else ID's the car, gives lots of detail about it, and posts larger, clearer pictures. The cars then show up on his site, with the detail he harvested here.

Absolute nonsense! Why, Ultra, I say this with all proper respect, You tell so bad thing about me

He credits his friends for the content, but doesn't mention AutoPuzzles at all.

Of course I do credit my firends an not only - all people who help me personally - not the website. I have nothing to do with AutoPuzzles. I am just a member of this fascinating comunity.

However, he includes his site's URL in puzzle pics he posts here, and is linking to that site in some of his answers.

These pictures are rare and I don't want them to appear anywhere, let' say "stolen". BUT, I don't claim any copyrights or anything similar about them It is just a mark.

Frankly, I think his whole site is derivative of us and what we do here.

It is Your opinion that is upseting me a lot...

---

Generally, Ultra, if You simply don't like me, don't respect me or whatever, why don't You write a personal for me and tell "Get out of our form!!". I simply don't uderstand why all this public spectacle is needed.

[Ultra]

Do you wish to start crediting this site, on every page you use information you sourced from here, or shall I take other actions to protect my copyright?

The choice is yours.


 

[Arunas]

Please explain why should I credit this site and on ever single page as You wish?

Please tell me exact pages You wish the credit to appear and this will be done.

[Ultra]

Please explain why should I credit this site and on ever single page as You wish?

every page you use information you sourced from here

Because I own the rights and for me to protect them I must insist you provide source info on each publication.  Legally, every separate URL page is a publication and credit must me given. 

You can speak to my attorney if you prefer. 

[Ultra]

Please tell me exact pages You wish the credit to appear and this will be done.

This will be left to the membership here.    Guys, start telling Arunas where he should have given us credit.  Do it right here in this thread please.

Arunas, in the future, if you source info from this site I don't expect you to pay for it.  I DO expect you to give credit for it on your site without me having to call you out on it.  If I can prove you sourced it here and you failed to give proper credit I WILL have to pursue this matter in every manner available to me, legal or otherwise, until I feel restitution has been made.

[Arunas]

Ok. I'll explain this:

I haven't taken any information word by word from autopuzzles website. The pictures that I use for my website are more than easily accessible on the internet and those that are not accessible are marked - claiming NO COPYRIGHTS. The only thing that in humble opnion I am really indebted for AutoPuzzles are ideas for posts. I am also greatly thankful for the people - members of the comunity that You Ultra, and Your team have created. That's why I have added the link to the forum and not because You asked politely. I hope this will be enough and we'll forget this silly tiff.

[Ultra]

That's why I have added the link to the forum and not because You asked politely. I hope this will be enough and we'll forget this silly tiff.

You will credit us on every page any member here asks you too or I will ban you here and begin legal proceedings to seek remunerative and punitive damages from you as well as the eventual shutting down of your site.

My attorney has been consulted and he is in agreement with me that I am well within my rights.  I do this to protect this site and the people who are a part of it.  I don't make any money here.  Now I am ready to incur legal fees in order to protect this site.  We operate on the following principal:

Copyright © 2009 by AutoPuzzles.com. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted, provided full credit is given.

Respect it and you respect everyone here.  Don't and you can bet I will do everything in my power to see that you do.

[Arunas]

I don't want any problems to occur as I have no intentions to harm this website, steal, broke any copyrights and etc. and etc. You understand me - I understand You.

[faksta]

This is something very unexpected on a forum like this which I consider one of the most friendly communities in the web. Very sad to see such things happen at AutoPuzzles. Ultra, I understand you completely having in mind a great responsibility you take for any image or a bit of information anyone can upload here. Thankfully, no problems ever appeared with this as far as I know, and this is your achievement as well.
But a few words in defense of Arunas as well. I know how he works on his blog and how many information he takes from paper sources - magazines, books, libraries etc. I have helped him with a couple of entries there and I can confirm he is very enthusiastic about it. I don't know his relations with anyone else here though, so I can't judge. To be also mentioned, I wouldn't say his blog is built upon the puzzles we place - a big amount of cars he posted were not even featured here or have been uploaded later, I have checked it just now. Some other cars have been posted as puzzles by himself. There is also a number of cars featured here as puzzles, but with much more information present as a result of Arunas' research.
Speaking shorter, I hope the problem is solvable and would be really happy if it was solved in a peaceful way. Guys, we really don't need any confrontations here.

[Ultra]

Faksta, you agree Arunas should give credit where material has been sourced from here. That is all I or anyone else has asked. I don't think the request is unfair or inappropriate and I stand by it. If any member here thinks some of his work should be credited to us here at AutoPuzzles let us know here.

[Paul Jaray]

I'm sure his intentions are good.
He's not trying to make a site on his own stealing from here.
I often share with him my material and I sent him several pics of mine and none of them are in his place, except for the Pininfarina's Superamerica, and he wrote that.
There are, it's true, some cars taken here and reported as 'source: unknown' but I'm sure he will fix it.
I recognize a true passion for cars and I don't think he's just after some info to steal.
I took hundreds of thousands of pics from the net, that's why probably I'm the last that can say a word, but the only thing that worries me, and it's not about Arunas, is that some pictures taken from old books, magazines, etc, are now in other sites without any credit to this place. That is why I started to mark some of my pics.
I'm nothing more than a member here, but I feel, like Ultra, the responsability to preserve this place, and when I post my material here I'm fine but when I see it around I'd prefer to see also a credit to this great place.
I'm sure you can fix this little matter without going to far, because we all have a passion in common.

[faksta]

Yes, I think giving a credit is fair and even vital, I agree with you here. But we can't be sure that some materials, even those which have appeared after they have been solved here and which use the same photograph as present at AP really come from here. I have many pictures shown here as puzzles on my hard drive also, as well as many car stories - in books, magazines, at another sites. I would like this to be noted when specifying the exact posts in this blog - I think it is also fair, considering that many information comes to AutoPuzzles from the Internet also.
I hope adding the links would be enough to forget about this matter.

[Paul Jaray]

The solution is not hard.
If you take a car in Arunas's blog, and then search it here in AP, you can see that sometimes it's been posted here before, sometimes later.
Sometimes pictures and info are the same, but sometimes he found out more, or he found the source of the puzzle.
The credit for the material can be another then, but the car was brought to his attention from AP.
It's like the 'ebay find' that are all around the net: I can make a whole site with that material and credit only ebay!
Now that He knows that we all are sensitive to this problem we can only ask him to credit AP for the cars that can be found only here but is a matter of courtesy if he credits AP also for the cars that can be found elsewhere that he found first here.

[motorcar1]

Ahhh, the internet,

Truly a web of information and sometimes deceit.

I have never visited the site you guys are refering too>>.
I do agree that Ultra has a legitamate complaint about copying from this site and pasting onto another.

Quote from Arunas>>>
"That's why I have added the link to the forum and not because You asked politely. I hope this will be enough and we'll forget this silly tiff."
Arunas>>>>adding the "not because you asked politely " kind of drowned out the offer to correct though>> I do think that you are sincere in your offering of a Olive Branch for peace with Ultra and others on this great site though >>>>

It seems that the issue has been taken care of, do so hope that anything "borrowed" from A/P notes it as such.
Smart of you PJ to start marking your pics>>>>>
I landed here because you guys are coooool and have more knowledge than any site I have ever visited.
Control is usually kept 99.9999% of the time, I do credit Ultra for keeping a good clean and fact filled site, as well as any and all members that post..

By the way Ultra, I have been corresponding with PJ about the article on the Harris Car, wanted some of his advice on how to handle up the story and get it started, it will be almost like a book>>>>

Also, seems likely that someone else might "pirate" stories and info first publized here in the future,

Therefore:  the article that unveils itself  "HEREIN" about the Harris Car, will be an "exclusive in Autopuzzles", any infringment WILL be dealt with in a strict manner. Credit where Credit is due !!!!!
The wording and the entire story will be easily detected if it is copied>>> as the story will be new, fresh and fact filled,
When I later release it to magazines etcetera for National publication, acknowledgements will be mandated or it will not be published in any shape form or manner. AP will be tops on that list>>>>>>

A P is the best guys, it just doesn't get any better>>>>
JOHN

[Ultra]

It isn't about a posters motivations and I am not questioning anyone's here. Rights need to be protected and respected or they are lost.  I have detailed here what it takes to maintain those rights and I intend to see to it that they are respected. That is all that need be said.

Edited P.S.  In the meantime while we wait for Arunas to start to credit usage on his site to the AP souces, where applicable, I have limited Arunas' privileges to this site.  I would like to make clear, however, he is not banned and can still post here.

[Arunas]

This is the e-mail that I couln't send via webmaster@autopuzzles.com

Dear Charlie,

it seems that I cannot send private messages anymore so I am writing this e-mail to finally solve this silly tiff.

I have already looked through all my posts and gave direct links to AutoPuzzles topics where I believe it is really needed. Here's the list:

http://findrarecar.co.cc/?p=446
http://findrarecar.co.cc/?p=346
http://findrarecar.co.cc/?p=282
http://findrarecar.co.cc/?p=279
http://findrarecar.co.cc/?p=130
http://findrarecar.co.cc/?p=64
http://findrarecar.co.cc/?p=58
http://findrarecar.co.cc/?p=50

If You suppose I must add credit links in any other posts, let me know and I'll do this or we'll discuss this.

All histories and texts that are published in my blog are original - written by me or supplied by other people that are always mentioned. I don't and I won't use AutoPuzzles as the source of information. If You don't think so, give me a link of the post as a concrete example and we'll discuss this. Discussion, not tiffs is the way to solve any problems.

Best regards,
Arunas R

[Otto Puzzell]

Thank you, Ultra, for starting this thread. I've watched this develop over time, and the recent posting of links by Arunas to his own site in puzzles here, along with the URL of his site embedded in his pics, is what raised my hackles, to the point that I brought it to Ultra's attention. Using AP to promote his own site was the game changer. Yes, we promote other sites here, including MG's blogged editorials. But the sites we link to are the result of either those site owners asking us to do so, or us entering into a reciprocal link-sharing arrangement with those sites.  

I agree that content derived herein should be credited as such. Changing the order of words in derivative content does not make it original. Also, nowhere above is the assertion made that Arunas derives ALL of his content here. Arguing that if not ALL content is plagiarized, it's OK, is silly. The fact that it is Arunas engaging in this behavior is not a surprise. He has, in the past engaged in other activities that he was told to abandon - also involving links to other sites - but since he thought they were OK, kept doing them until he was temporarily banned.

I can create and post a selection watermark AutoPuzzles graphics in various sizes that posters here can add to their pictures, if interested.

[Otto Puzzell]

Update:

Arunas has gone back and done a meticulous job of crediting this site, as promised.

Good on ya, Arunas.

[faksta]

I can create and post a selection watermark AutoPuzzles graphics in various sizes that posters here can add to their pictures, if interested.

Well, let's do this - it would certainly help to avoid such matters in the furute, although the number of puzzles will decrease because of the extra time which would be needed to create one.

[Ultra]

Good on ya, Arunas. Permissions restored.