Topic: An idea for a new point scoring system for long-term unsolved puzzles

[Otto Puzzell]

I don't have a strong opinion, one way or the other, but am mindful of this:

Pro's like Allemano Ray B. and Paul Jaray earned the majority of their points the old fashioned way - one point at a time. Are not their amazing point totals stripped of their significance if we start awarding four points for what previously paid one, or occasionally two? While there is no tangible value to points awarded here, I think there is merit to maintaining some continuity with history.

As to when to move puzzles? I tend to move my own if  there is a surplus in the lower ranks, or when one week has passed since it was posted. A one-month stay in the Expert section for all puzzles will result in even fewer puzzles for the Pros to engage in solving.

[DeAutogids]

As long as they keep solving puzzles the way they do, they will get 3 to 4 points per puzzle, therefore gaining significantly more per puzzle.

[Allemano]

I don't have a strong opinion, one way or the other, but am mindful of this:

Pro's like Allemano Ray B. and Paul Jaray earned the majority of their points the old fashioned way - one point at a time. Are not their amazing point totals stripped of their significance if we start awarding four points for what previously paid one, or occasionally two? While there is no tangible value to points awarded here, I think there is merit to maintaining some continuity with history.

As to when to move puzzles? I tend to move my own if  there is a surplus in the lower ranks, or when one week has passed since it was posted. A one-month stay in the Expert section for all puzzles will result in even fewer puzzles for the Pros to engage in solving*.

*I think you may right at this point.
I'll shorten the time lapse my puzzles stay in the Expert section to 14 days.

On one hand I'm with Ultra. Things discussed here should only be guidelines rather than strict rules.
On the other we should find a way to restrict lingering puzzlers. (as described in my previous post)


About a reform of a point scoring system I'm with Otto as well.
I think a new system would distort the statistics. (points before and after score reform)

[DeAutogids]

well there is a solution to that. The problem is that I don't know if we can find out retrospectively who solved BH-puzzles, but assuming they are either Expert or Pro-puzzles, then it is a simple matter of maths.

180 extra expert points
(Total points-200) X 2 Pro-points.

[Otto Puzzell]

Or, we could leave it as-is.

[Allemano]

It seems I don't know what I'm doing.

Of course moved Rookie puzzles do NOT rest for a whole month in the Expert section!
I use to move it to the Pros after one month total time.
So, three weeks in the Expert section would have been correct.  

However, I will change it to two weeks from now on!

[Arunas]

I have a suggestion or an idea that probably has been here before.

Rookie Puzzles - 1 point
Expert Puzzles - 2 points
Pro Puzzles - 3 points
BH - 4 points

With this system you encourage difficult puzzles but on the other had it might lead to waiting puzzles to be moved to a higher level so more points will get scored...

I don't fully agree with this.

My suggestion would to have a one/two point per puzzle like now, but to have several different groups of points:

let's say rookie points, expert points, pro points, BH points.

Provided a rookie solves a long forgotten BH puzzle - he gets one BH point. An expert solving one pro puzzle gets one pro point and so on.

The points (1-2) per correct answer would be just like they are now, buf the diversification would better represent the skills of solving puzzles of different levels, imho.

[Otto Puzzell]

The board software doesn't accommodate awarding different categories of points.

[DeAutogids]

Or, we could leave it as-is.

Never heard of the chap. Could you enlighten me as how this would be relevant?

[Ultra]

Points are to be determined by the person who posts the puzzle. Full stop.

[DeAutogids]

Glad to hear we have an open discussion.

[Otto Puzzell]

Or, we could leave it as-is.

Never heard of the chap. Could you enlighten me as how this would be relevant?

William of Ockham - the root source of the term "Occam's Razor"

[Ultra]

Glad to hear we have an open discussion.

Your sarcasm here is unwarranted, unappreciated and ill thought through. The discussion is open. The idea of "rules" about points, isn't gonna fly because it cannot be enforced without turning editors into cops.  As far as I am concerned it doesn't take much forethought to figure that out. 

[DeAutogids]

Or, we could leave it as-is.

Never heard of the chap. Could you enlighten me as how this would be relevant?

William of Ockham - the root source of the term "Occam's Razor"

That makes sense. Learned something new. You could argue that this is KISS?

[DeAutogids]

Your sarcasm here is unwarranted, unappreciated and ill thought through.

Explain. You say "Full Stop", which implies that there is no discussion possible.

- Just as a note, somebody that starts an idea will try to defend it. It does not mean that that somebody doesn't think another idea or the present idea does not work, is bad, but could even think the opposite. To question a long standing rule is not neccessarily a quest to change this.

[Allemano]

Explain. You say "Full Stop", which implies that there is no discussion possible.

- Just as a note, somebody that starts an idea will try to defend it. It does not mean that that somebody doesn't think another idea or the present idea does not work, is bad, but could even think the opposite. To question a long standing rule is not neccessarily a quest to change this.

I have got the feeling that this isn't the right place for chatting. (Sorry, but I feel I have to roll eyes a bit)

Let's get back to the important things..  

[D-type]

So, what's the consensus?

(a)  Keep the points as they are, ie its up to the poster to decide on one or two points
(b)  Move puzzles up sooner than at present

Can I suggest a guideline of "about a week without any more guesses - move it up"

and how about:
(c)  After it's reached the black hole start giving hints

[Carnut]

Well I only re-opened this to have a discussion.  Personally I don't agree that I would only stick to my own ideas - there have been some very good points thrown into the ring and I'm always open to better ideas than my own.

I too think that changing the points system would be unnecessary and over-complicated.

I was only trying to avoid puzzles hanging around forever in whatever section they are in (generally Pro's or the Black Hole, because even though they might take an eternity most puzzles do end up there!)

There are unsolved puzzles that I want to know the answer to!

So I still think it a good idea for the Puzzler to declare the answer finally and move it - after having tried to get it solved with clues etc.  Frankly it's only a tiny proportion of puzzles posted: most do get solved as there are some awesomely knowledgeable people on this forum!

[woodinsight]

I agree that the scoring system should be left as it is.
More activity appears to be happening in the last couple of weeks with many puzzles being solved and others moving up through the ranks.
It's even much busier here up in the Pros!

[Paul Jaray]

...

I was only trying to avoid puzzles hanging around forever in whatever section they are in (generally Pro's or the Black Hole, because even though they might take an eternity most puzzles do end up there!)

There are unsolved puzzles that I want to know the answer to!

...

My opinion is that you should ask for clues, then.
Personally I will let you find the solution with any sort of clue but I will never solved my own puzzle.
There is always a way to lead someone to the solution and these days I saw that I'm not the only one giving strong clues....
If there is no interest in the puzzle, why should the puzzler solve it? If there is much interest, then let's play!

[Carnut]

My opinion is that you should ask for clues, then.

I'll have to see what I can think of.
With most of them I don't have much idea where to start, or the most obvious questions have already been asked.  However, there are always more so I'll have to dig my thinking cap out..

[Carnut]

Instant point awarding might be chaotic and is difficult to recall sometimes ("... did I already give you one point?")

I'm still really in favour of points being awarded as they are earned rather than when the puzzle is moved to Solved.

I have a number of points earned some time ago but not allocated; it may well be that the puzzles end up in The Black Hole and never really get allocated at all.

I've allocated the points in my Bus Puzzles as they are earned and as long as you keep track of what's been done (I still find a pen and paper quite useful in these days of the computer!) then it shouldn't be difficult to be accurate.