Topic: An idea for a new point scoring system for long-term unsolved puzzles

[Ultra]

If you move them you take them over as creator and cannot guess them.  You must move them with a message so that it become known who is taking responsibility for the puzzle.

 

[Paul Jaray]

Alright.
I'll send a PM to Jimjarron and if there is no reply, I'll make them mine and move it to the Expert section.
...or I can move them right away and send a PM. 

[Ultra]

Alright.
I'll send a PM to Jimjarron and if there is no reply, I'll make them mine and move it to the Expert section.
...or I can move them right away and send a PM. 

Move them to the Black Hole and then send the PM.  They are yours.

[Allemano]

..
...or I can move them right away and send a PM.  

Yes, I would PM afterwards. If somebody isn't active for such a long time, he can't complain about it.

[Carnut]

To revisit a previous discussion:

There are quite a few puzzles that never got solved and they don't really have a home apart from The Dreaded Black Hole.

I suggest (and this has probably been suggested before!) that if a puzzle or part of a group puzzle is still unsolved after 1 year the answer is declared by the puzzler, it is moved to Solved (perhaps with the heading 'Unsolved'?) and the puzzler is awarded a point.

I'm particularly thinking about this now because there are group puzzles where the points are only awarded when all answers are complete, so if there is maybe one last question that no-one can get then the points are never awarded.  This would give us a mechanism to do so, although personally I prefer to award points as they are earned rather than waiting until the puzzle is complete otherwise it distorts the number of points a puzzler might have, even to the point where he is still answering questions in a section where he shouldn't be because he has actually won more points than he has been credited with!

Anyone agree with this?

[Arunas]

To revisit a previous discussion:

There are quite a few puzzles that never got solved and they don't really have a home apart from The Dreaded Black Hole.

I suggest (and this has probably been suggested before!) that if a puzzle or part of a group puzzle is still unsolved after 1 year the answer is declared by the puzzler, it is moved to Solved (perhaps with the heading 'Unsolved'?) and the puzzler is awarded a point.

I'm particularly thinking about this now because there are group puzzles where the points are only awarded when all answers are complete, so if there is maybe one last question that no-one can get then the points are never awarded.  This would give us a mechanism to do so, although personally I prefer to award points as they are earned rather than waiting until the puzzle is complete otherwise it distorts the number of points a puzzler might have, even to the point where he is still answering questions in a section where he shouldn't be because he has actually won more points than he has been credited with!

Anyone agree with this?

I do agree. But there's one problematic case about the long forgotten group puzzles the author(s) of which are no longer active members of the foum...

[fyreline]

I'm going to cobble together an unrecongnizable car of some sort, never take it out of my garage, post a photo of it, and then take it apart.  I guarantee no one will ever guess what it is.  Is the effort worth 1000 points?

Nah.

Seriously though, I think the proposed system does have merit.  Our resident "Grand Masters" probably don't really want or need the extra points, but it is a way of recognizing their excellence. I say go for it.

[woodinsight]

I agree in general with what has been said so far.

Many of my puzzles are still awaiting a solution and I have made a move to solve some of them by dropping several (often inane) clues.

I'm not interested in gaining points on a personal level but I do feel strongly about puzzles sitting in the BH for months. I would much rather see the unsolved puzzles revealed in due course to add information and knowledge for other AutoPuzzles members.

Numerous solved puzzles lack additional information & photos. Perhaps there could be an incentive (points or whatever) for adding more data and images...... possibly difficult to manage but just a thought on future development.......

[Aaron65]

To revisit a previous discussion:

There are quite a few puzzles that never got solved and they don't really have a home apart from The Dreaded Black Hole.

I suggest (and this has probably been suggested before!) that if a puzzle or part of a group puzzle is still unsolved after 1 year the answer is declared by the puzzler, it is moved to Solved (perhaps with the heading 'Unsolved'?) and the puzzler is awarded a point.


Anyone agree with this?

I like this idea, but I think even a year is too long...maybe a matter of months would be better.  If something's been sitting around for 3 or 4 months, then the poster has done a good job stumping everybody and deserves that point...just an opinion from a guy who's only been here 6 months anyway!

[Carnut]

6 months would work just as well; perhaps 1 year is a bit too long.

As far as inactive members are concerned, it's already been agreed that their puzzles can be moved by  Administrators after some time has elapsed; they can also post the answer (if they know it, then they'll get a point!) and move it to Solved.  If no-one knows the answer and the poster is inactive then there's not much we can do, but I think there really are not many members who've posted puzzles that are still unsolved but who are now inactive.

So what do you think, Ultra, Otto, Allemano, PJ, Porridgehead / other Admins if there are any...?
Shall a rule be introduced to cater for it?

[Paul Jaray]

We can deal with inactive puzzlers like we estabilished before.
1st anyone can bump the puzzle and wait for a reply, then we can contact him via PM or email requiring his presence and finally take over his puzzle and rule it as our own. I already did it for DHoffmann huge puzzle.

[Carnut]

We can deal with inactive puzzlers like we estabilished before.
1st anyone can bump the puzzle and wait for a reply, then we can contact him via PM or email requiring his presence and finally take over his puzzle and rule it as our own. I already did it for DHoffmann huge puzzle.

Yes, it works fine.
The only problem is if we can't get an answer out of the inactive member and no-one else knows it..  If it's a group puzzle it could still be moved to Solved (as you did) but if not then it could be moved as Unsolved or left where it is.

I think the main thing is, as woodinsight says, that we do all learn what a car is when no-one has been able to solve it; this would allow the puzzler to declare the answer (and some Pro's could get some rare points!) rather than it languishing in the Black Hole for ever.

And whilst writing, I find it a bit strange how some fairly prominent AutoPuzzlers fall by the wayside.  There are one or two particular ones, but one who springs to mind is @re, whose puzzles frequently pop up when I'm searching.  They are without exception great puzzles of very interesting cars, and just my style.  It seems he stopped coming when I upset him with a remark once, but it seems a bit silly to do that (cutting one's own nose off springs to mind), although his visits had already become increasingly rare before then.

[D-type]

I find it frustrating when puzzles sit totally inactive.  Should we introduce a rule on the lines of "1 month without any further replies - move from Rookies to Experts and the same for Experts to Pros.

And on a separate note, can I suggest that the "Pros and Feature writers" board be closed and the puzzles moved to the Pros.  The idea just hasn't caught on.

[woodinsight]

I find it frustrating when puzzles sit totally inactive.  Should we introduce a rule on the lines of "1 month without any further replies - move from Rookies to Experts and the same for Experts to Pros.

And on a separate note, can I suggest that the "Pros and Feature writers" board be closed and the puzzles moved to the Pros.  The idea just hasn't caught on.

I'd agree with you there D-type, there are many puzzles that remain dormant for a long time.
To respond to your second point, I've posted several puzzles in the PAFW section only to have to move them back to the Pros for all to guess. There has to be another way to tempt puzzlers to submit features (I personally haven't yet done so but I have a few in the pipeline).
Without wishing to upset the momentum of this very successful site I do believe that some thought should be given to several issues that will no doubt arise in the future development of maintaining the leading position of this site.

[Carnut]

Yes, I'd agree generally, particularly with regard to the compulsory moving of apparently dormant puzzles.

I do think it's essential for the Pro's to be able to involve themselves actively - more actively than they are able to do at the moment.  Anything that could promote that would get my vote.

[Carnut]

The Powers-That-Be not really in favour of a change then?

[Ultra]

I leave it up to Otto, PJ, Ray and Allemano.

[Paul Jaray]

As usual I like to isolate the issues to deal with.
Dormant Puzzler? We bump his puzzles, contact him and rule his puzzles as our own from the Black Hole section. We can estabilish a 2 month maximum for a reply.
Puzzle without a solution after a long period but active puzzler? Questions,questions and questions! If the puzzler wants, he can lead you to the solution. I'm not the only one who gave some quite easy clues just to have a solution.
Group Puzzles? see above, let's focus on the one you want to be solved and ask for clues.
Puzzles without a solution (unknown by the puzzler or absent puzzler)?Black Hole ad libitum.
My idea  

[Allemano]

My suggestions:

Move a Rookie puzzle after ~ one week
Move a Expert puzzle after ~ one month
Move it finally to the Black Hole after ~ another month.
(solved Black Hole puzzles should generally earn two points)

Comment unanswered replies by admins or members after ~ 1-2 weeks with a 'bump' icon. (please not earlier than 3 days, though)
After ~ one month with no reaction admins should be allowed to 'hi-jack' this puzzle and moderate it in place for the missed author till it's solved – if possible. (in case the original author steps in again it's his puzzle again of course)
Puzzle solver should offer proof via PM to admins if it ain't that obvious.

Authors who will be absent for a longer period should post a short note in the 'Slow Answers' topic


In case of long lasting and partly unsolved group puzzles I'm a little more conservative. I'd like to leave them like that.
Instant point awarding might be chaotic and is difficult to recall sometimes ("... did I already give you one point?")
Maybe the 'bump' icon works here as well!

[DeAutogids]

I have a suggestion or an idea that probably has been here before.

Rookie Puzzles - 1 point
Expert Puzzles - 2 points
Pro Puzzles - 3 points
BH - 4 points

With this system you encourage difficult puzzles but on the other had it might lead to waiting puzzles to be moved to a higher level so more points will get scored...

[Allemano]

The admin 'Entthing' will hold a meeting, soon.

[woodinsight]

My suggestions:

Move a Rookie puzzle after ~ one week
Move a Expert puzzle after ~ one month
Move it finally to the Black Hole after ~ another month.
(solved Black Hole puzzles should generally earn two points)

Comment unanswered replies by admins or members after ~ 1-2 weeks with a 'bump' icon. (please not earlier than 3 days, though)
After ~ one month with no reaction admins should be allowed to 'hi-jack' this puzzle and moderate it in place for the missed author till it's solved – if possible. (in case the original author steps in again it's his puzzle again of course)
Puzzle solver should offer proof via PM to admins if it ain't that obvious.

Authors who will be absent for a longer period should post a short note in the 'Slow Answers' topic


In case of long lasting and partly unsolved group puzzles I'm a little more conservative. I'd like to leave them like that.
Instant point awarding might be chaotic and is difficult to recall sometimes ("... did I already give you one point?")
Maybe the 'bump' icon works here as well!

I agree with that. It would keep things moving along nicely.
There has recently been a log jam of puzzles in the Rookies section (often 8 pages) with a dearth in the Experts (sometimes 4 pages) and this would help the problem.

Regarding PJ's suggestions - I have also resorted to providing some easy clues to help solve a puzzle.
As I said earlier I would rather have the puzzle solved than it be lost in the BH.

[Wendax]

My suggestions:

Move a Rookie puzzle after ~ one week
Move a Expert puzzle after ~ one month
Move it finally to the Black Hole after ~ another month.
(solved Black Hole puzzles should generally earn two points)

I agree to the week for a Rookie puzzle to be promoted. But a month is a long time waiting for a starving pro 
I move my Expert puzzles one week after the last reply. This can turn out to be quite a while for a puzzle that is interesting enough to raise questions once in a while, but will move very special ones quite fast to the upmost level.

[Ultra]

Everything that is done here is done by mutual agreement of the people doing it. Let me remind everyone, any "rule" means subsequent enforcement.  I am not a cop and neither are any of the admins here at AP.  That is why I make a distinction between the term "rule" and the term "guideline."  Whatever guidelines you guys come up with you need to communicate clearly and concisely amongst yourselves and constantly be at your best to work together and remind people to follow them.  Pros help the experts help the rookies, etc.  PM's are here for a reason. Most of what you have here you guys can start doing now.  Use the personal messages and politely encourage people to move puzzles along, etc.  It is that type of teamwork that will make the site flow better and subsequently grow into a more user friendly place.

[D-type]

I've had a quick look

The Rookies are currently 6 pages.  Promoting puzzles that have been without an answer since 28th March, a week ago, would reduce it to 3 pages.  That includes about 40 puzzles that haven't attracted a single guess.

The experts are currently 5 pages including a last page of dross.  Promoting those older than 28th March would again reduce it to 3 pages while promoting those older than 5th April would reduce it to 4 pages and relese very few genuine puzzles.

So a rule sorry guideline of "Promote after a week or so" would work for both.

Personally, I'm not fussed about points - but it would be a drag to be promoted to Pro with no puzzles to tackle.  A progression of 1 point for a Rookie puzzle up to 4 for a Black Hole would work.  It would have the effect of promoting rookies to experts and experts to pros more rapidly.  Would swelling the ranks of the pros matter?  I don't think so provided there was a steady flow of puzzles promoted up to pro level for them to solve.