SOLVED - si_029 - Henschel - II-6500 - Drögmöller - Heilbronn - 1951

Started by sichel, July 09, 2021, 02:38:17 PM

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sichel

July 09, 2021, 02:38:17 PM Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 02:00:05 PM by sichel
Diesel-engine is missing. Who was the manufactorer of the chassis? Who built the body and when? Where was it used? One point for four answers.
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

sichel

#1
July 16, 2021, 07:19:10 AM
Do experts know more?
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Alfa_Japan

#2
July 16, 2021, 03:42:54 PM
Italian made but used in Germany?

sichel

#3
July 16, 2021, 04:55:15 PM
No, not at all.
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Alfa_Japan

#4
July 17, 2021, 12:46:57 AM
Ikarus?

sichel

#5
July 17, 2021, 03:28:13 AM
No.
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

D-type

#6
July 18, 2021, 03:33:57 PM
German, so Siemens?
Duncan Rollo

The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.

sichel

#7
July 18, 2021, 04:26:43 PM
German: yes
Siemens: partial
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

ducamax66

#8
July 18, 2021, 05:21:33 PM
Lowa W602?

sichel

#9
July 18, 2021, 06:06:06 PM
No.
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

sichel

#10
July 25, 2021, 08:12:00 AM
Maybe a prof has an idea.
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Carnut

#11
July 25, 2021, 08:53:47 AM Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 09:14:35 AM by Carnut
It was a Stadt Heilbronn trolleybus which ran until 1960, when they were replaced by diesel buses. Some were sold to the town of Braga in Portugal.
They were bodied by Heilbronn companies Wankmiller and Drögmöller in 1951 to 1955, but I haven't been able to find out what the chassis was yet..

Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

sichel

#12
July 25, 2021, 09:03:31 AM Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 09:26:58 AM by sichel
Locked for You till Tuesday. Than I'll be back from a short business trip. Please decide also, who was the coachbuilder and have a look at the front-wheels...
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Carnut

#13
July 25, 2021, 09:27:13 AM
Information is very thin on the ground.
I think this particular one was by Karosserie Wankmiller, but the chassis is purely guesswork. Henschel?
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

sichel

#14
July 25, 2021, 09:39:05 AM
Yes, it is Henschel, but please more details. Coachbuilder is a 50:50-choice  ;)
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Carnut

#15
July 25, 2021, 10:12:44 AM
In that case it must be Gotthard Drögmöller?
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

sichel

#16
July 25, 2021, 03:11:09 PM
Yes, it is Drögmöller. But I miss the details of the bus.
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Carnut

#17
July 25, 2021, 05:42:50 PM Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 07:25:20 AM by Carnut
Oh, I thought I'd answered the four questions ("Who was the manufactorer of the chassis? Who built the body and when? Where was it used? One point for four answers"):

It's a Stadt Heilbronn trolleybus bodied by Gotthard Drögmöller on a Henschel chassis in 1951. It remained in service only until 1960 when some of them were sold for operation in Braga, Portugal.

Since you specially said to look at the front wheels maybe that's what you're referring to.
The front wheels are also double, like at the rear, which is very unusual but I don't know the reason. Surely not FWD or AWD?
Perhaps it's something to do with the fact the trolleybuses could also tow a passenger trailer, and there were 3 trailers on the fleet along with 7 Henschel buses. But the law was changed in the early 1960s and they would no longer be allowed to tow a trailer.
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

sichel

#18
July 27, 2021, 01:54:28 PM Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 02:49:22 PM by sichel
Sorry Carnut, my mistake. Genrally I ask for manufactorer and type (Henschel II-6500), but in this case, I forgot it. So, your answer is complete and you have earned the point.

For double tyres: there are two explanations for this.

First: For trolleybusses type II (two axles, up to 90 passengers), tyres in the dimension 12.00-20 where needed, but because of the war preparations not available in sufficient quantity. So, double tyres 9.00-20 were used by Henschel as a substitute. This is a trademark for first generation Henschel-trolleybuses

Second: Through the smaller tyres the entrance height could be lowered, an advantage for the fast flow of passengers.
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Carnut

#19
July 27, 2021, 05:27:44 PM
Thanks Sichel.
Just to add a little more information, the fleet numbers of the Henschel buses were 201/206 and the chassis numbers were 25230/5.

Regarding the double tyres, I did wonder if they really were double (I know it says they are on one of the Heilbronn historical sites) as it's not really possible to make them out clearly and it would make the buses very heavy to steer.  But your explanation is logical and I'm sure you're right.

I studied pictures of the buses after they were sold to Braga but I still couldn't make it out if they really were double at the front!:

Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

sichel

#20
July 27, 2021, 08:06:53 PM
Carnut, thank you for this background-informations.
You are right with the problem of steering forces. And so Henschel used pneumatic power steering.
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

sichel

#21
July 29, 2021, 04:46:17 PM
@ carnut: Question clarified?
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Carnut

#22
July 29, 2021, 05:41:50 PM
 :thumbsup:
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars
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