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Author Topic: Solved - NEH 5652: DKW F.102 prototype with front redesigned by Bertone - 1965  (Read 838 times)

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Offline Carnut

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Solved - NEH 5652: DKW F.102 prototype with front redesigned by Bertone - 1965
« on: March 02, 2021, 02:52:50 PM »
For an easy Rookie point, what's this, by whom, from when?
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Offline sichel

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2021, 03:13:25 PM »
Prototype DKW F 102.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2021, 05:46:14 PM »
Close but not quite what I have it as..
I'm not 100% convinced of the reliability of my source  however so I'll check it out!
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Offline sichel

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2021, 02:37:58 AM »
It can also be an early version of the Audi 72, the follower of the F 102.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2021, 04:26:46 AM »
No, you were right that it was an F.102: my info was not quite right.
But that's not all!  I need more info about exactly what it was for the point!
Locked for you.
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Offline sichel

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2021, 09:34:40 AM »
I found the picture, but without further explanations. The license plate is from Ingolstadt and the radiator grille bears the trademark of "Auto Union", the four rings.  F 102 was presented in August 1963, so it might be a a pre-series model from 1962. But I think it is a design-study for DKW-VEMAG, a brasilian licensee of Auto-Union. Till 1967, they built DKW 3=6 with modified front design. So this car will be planed as follower for the brasilian market. 
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2021, 11:02:14 AM »
No, you're complicating it too much!
You were nearer with your first guess, but what did the DKW F.102 go on to become and who was responsible for the look of the car in the puzzle?
Last go!
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Offline sichel

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2021, 11:55:23 AM »
If I understand you correctly, it should be a pre-series version of the DKW/Audi F 103 or rather the Audi 72. So the model was already created under the direction of Volkswagen. But i have no idea about the name of the designer.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2021, 02:16:44 PM »
Yes, it did metamorphose into the F. 103 and for some reason it seems to have another code-name, Audi 72. Not sure why but I believe it might have been called that in Germany (but never in the UK as it was the Audi 60 here); sorry I didn't recognise the '72' nomenclature!
So the only question remaining is the designer of the new front and the date this prototype appeared?
Still yours to answer.
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Offline Wendax

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2021, 02:27:37 PM »
Just an addition to the "72": the first postwar Audi was just called Audi or Audi L without any model number. Just when the Super 90, 80, 75 and 60 appeared it was unofficially called 72 because it had a 72 hp engine. F103 was the internal code, but never used as a model name.
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Offline sichel

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2021, 02:30:38 PM »
Hi, I konw Audi 72 as another name for the F 103. In Gemany, Audi 60 is the simple version of the Audi 72. No idea about the designer to the example. 
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2021, 05:28:13 PM »
OK, let's see if anyone else knows.
You've got the easy bit...
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Offline sichel

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2021, 10:27:33 PM »
Between 1958 and 1964/1966 Mercredes-Benz had the majority at Auto-Union/DKW. During that time Ludwig Kraus worked on new models for this factory. This included the models Mercedes W 118 and DKW/Audi F 103. It is likely that he had an influence on the design.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2021, 04:00:09 AM »
They may well have done but that's not the answer I'm looking for!
Who made the final touch to the puzzle picutre (which was not exactly as the car entered production as the Audi 60/75/80/90)?
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Offline sichel

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2021, 07:28:18 AM »
Design by Paul Bracq?
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2021, 07:48:34 AM »
No; wrong country!
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Offline sichel

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2021, 08:16:56 AM »
To my knowledge he worked for Mercedes-Benz. Kurt Wildert was leader of design at that time.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2021, 10:52:02 AM »
What I meant was the design wasn't done by a German or German company but an outside designer!
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Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2021, 05:47:23 AM »
Experts?
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Offline BattlePorQ

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2021, 05:56:58 AM »
1965 Audi F103 Bertone design proposal.
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Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 5652
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2021, 01:06:39 PM »
Bertone is what I was looking for.
In fact I think it was still the F.102 at this stage but it did go on to become F.103 before it finally entered production, with still more changes, as the Audi 60/75/80/90.
So it's 1 point for BattlePorQ, though I don't know why sichel couldn't find the Bertone connection, having done must of the work identifying it...
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 01:12:00 PM by Carnut »
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