Author Topic: What's It All About, Jesus?  (Read 3611 times)

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Offline MG

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What's It All About, Jesus?
« on: December 25, 2010, 08:53:07 AM »
As I write this on Christmas morning, 2010, millions upon millions of people around the world are celebrating the birth of Jesus. Or are they?

Historically speaking, we know that shepards do not tend their flocks by night in and around Bethlehem in December. Most religious scholars place the time of Jesus' birth as sometime in August, more or less. We know in our heart of hearts that what we call Christmas is really a remnant of old pagan midwinter rituals centered around the Winter Solstice and featuring lots of lights and fires and things like that to drive away evil spirits and celebrate the promise of renewal that comes when the days finally stop getting shorter and start growing longer, foretelling the coming of Spring and a time when crops can once again be planted. It is a time that is immutably linked in our human psyche with renewal and rebirth, the endless Cycle of Life and the implicit promise that the Cycle will continue more or less forever.

The Christmas Tree seems to harken back to olden times and the belief among early German peoples about the spirituality of forests and the mythical beings who dwelt there. We know that eating fish on Friday has nothing to do with honoring Christ and has everything to do with the desire of some Pope long ago to help the fishermen through an economic crisis. The same with celibacy for priests. Whose crazy idea was that? Totally absurd. And don't get me started on all this Virgin Mary crap. Where does THAT come from? We spend our lives having anxiety attacks about sex when we should be enjoying it. Wassup with that?

And then we have the mania, force fed by the merchants to buy, BUY, BUY at Christmastime. What's wrong with just reaching out to your friends and family and thanking them for being there for you all last year? Why do we have to lard our credit cards with purchases we can't afford? What has THAT got to do with Jesus?

Am I being too Scrooge like here? I don't think so. What I am saying is that we have pretty much squeezed any remaining meaning of Christmas out of the celebration. I truly would like to see us remember, as the expression goes, The Reason For The Season.

I am not a religious person.  I don't go to church and I don't associate with any religious sect. But I am not unmindful of the teachings of Jesus. Recently, I got the finger from a woman who cut me off in traffic while exiting the parking lot of the local Catholic Church after Mass. Why would I need solace from a religion like that?  

I am appalled by the murder and bloodshed that have been committed in the name of the one person in all of human history who tried to teach us not to kill each other. How can any true Christian send people into battle because some other human being is "a brutal dictator" or because "He tried to kill my father." If Jesus was here today and heard that sort of ridiculous blather from one of His supporters, I suspect even He would suffer a moment of sadness at the idiotic escapades committed by human beings in His name.

Is there any hope for mankind?  I think the answer is "Yes." I think that hope resides in the power of the internet, which allows us all to share our thoughts with each other no matter where we are on Earth. The internet is the antidote to the Tower of Babel. It allows us to see, as never before, that people ARE just people, no matter where they reside on Earth.

Earlier this year, I had the privilege of traveling to Europe where I met Malcolm Wood and Paul Jaray and Alex Corn and a young couple from Slovakia. The internet made all that possible. I was greeted warmly and made to feel welcome wherever my adventures carried me. I felt part of a human family. It was a very rewarding and uplifting experience.

Not to put too fine a point on it, governments around the world are trying their hardest to enrich the richest as the expense of the rest of us. Our ability to speak our minds is under assault like never before. Authoritarianism is resurgent all around the globe. But the internet has the power to counter all of that. It can open our eyes to the ways in which we are all alike rather than to the ways that we differ.

I think Jesus would approve. For it is only when we come to view each other as fellow passengers on Spaceship Earth that we will be able to say "NO!" to the forces who seek to divide us.

AutoPuzzles is part of that awakening. Here, there are members from virtually every country. We all get along. We all show a common respect for each other. And we all value input from others, regardless of their nationality, religion or political views.  We need more of that.

In the coming year and the years to follow, governments everywhere will struggle mightily to curb the power of the internet. It is in their best interests to keep us apart, to drive wedges between us. Because divided, we can be conquered and domesticated to serve the interests of governments and the masters who control them. We must resist such efforts to the maximum extent possible. If the internet is silenced......well, we shall be nothing more than slaves. And the promise that Jesus brought to the world all those many years ago will never come to fruition.

In the words of one old song, "Come on, people, now. Smile on your brother. Everybody get together, try to love one another right now."

Jesus probably would have phrased it differently, but the meaning is the same.

Happy Holidays, everybody!    :nod:

« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 08:57:02 AM by MG »
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Offline MG

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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2010, 10:32:04 AM »
Gee, I actually thought my rant would provoke a response or two...... :(
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Offline Allan L

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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2010, 11:29:15 AM »
A lot of what you wrote seems to be in agreement with my view/understanding.
I find it strange that all Christian denominations seem to agree to celebrate the birth of their founding figure on a fixed date in the middle of the Northern winter, but still base their commemoration of his death on a date determined by the phases of the moon - to the great inconvenience of the rest of us who either have to look it up, or else just assume there might be a long weekend holiday on any weekend between mid-March and late April.
We have to have some idea of all the strange beliefs and significant figures if we are to appreciate the majority of the art produced before about 1800, and some of what we learn for that purpose seems pretty irrelevant to the book it's all based on - but then we only know that book in the version translated in the 16th century and how much was written then, rather than just translated, one cannot know.
Those of us who haven't joined also find the extreme positions adopted by the various denominations (and their attitude to other sects) hard to take - though the "Protestant/Catholic" example in Northern Ireland often seemed more of an excuse for murder than anything Christian.
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Offline MG

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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2010, 11:50:53 AM »
Thanks, Allan.

The "translation" issue troubles me. If none of the original Aramaic texts are available for present day scholars to use to  validate the accuracy of various translations, how are we to know that what we are offered in The Bible is correct? And if there is doubt about its correctness, how can anyone believe that every word is literally The Word of God? Seems to me it takes an almost herculean leap of faith to do so.

One of the most absurd bumper stickers of all time reads as follows:  God said it. It's in the Bible. I believe it. And that settles it!!!! To me, that is just rank stupidity.  :-\

One of the things I learned while traveling this summer was that ALL of my hosts were more than willing to doubt and/or distrust what their governments and religions were telling them to believe. And none thought the Baby Jesus was all that pleased that other human beings were being murdered in His name.  :'(

The lies that our leaders tell us are predicated upon the belief that we cannot discern the truth. But with the internet now universally available and with the aid of organizations like WikiLeaks willing to tear awat the mask of deception, the possibility exists that the cauldron of lies we are spoon fed by our so called leaders will no longer enjoy the cloak of secrecy so necessary to their effectiveness.

Some quibble that Julian Assange is not Saint Thomas Aquinas or Mother Theresa. And if that is true, my response is "SO????" If those who dare to shine lights into dark corners must be purer than the driven snow, then the battle for truth is irretrievably and irrevocably lost.   :noid:
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Offline Otto Puzzell

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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2010, 11:55:39 AM »
Our friends in China and some other lands might be amused at your assumption of universal access to the internet.

If they could read it.

Otherwise, you're largely preaching to the choir here. What reasonable men want to see babies (or anyone else) murdered in the name of Jesus or any other person living or dead?
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Offline Ultra

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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2010, 12:03:43 PM »
Anti-state, anti-war, pro-market.
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Offline Allan L

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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2010, 12:32:29 PM »
The lies that our leaders tell us are predicated upon the belief that we cannot discern the truth. But with the internet now universally available and with the aid of organizations like WikiLeaks willing to tear awat the mask of deception, the possibility exists that the cauldron of lies we are spoon fed by our so called leaders will no longer enjoy the cloak of secrecy so necessary to their effectiveness.

Some quibble that Julian Assange is not Saint Thomas Aquinas or Mother Theresa. And if that is true, my response is "SO????" If those who dare to shine lights into dark corners must be purer than the driven snow, then the battle for truth is irretrievably and irrevocably lost. 
Assinus Assanage was interviewed on the radio here the other day and refused to answer something because it was confidential - he didn't seem to understand when the interviewer picked him up on the inconsistency that couldn't plead "in confidence" when his trade depends on people breaking confidences.
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Offline MG

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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2010, 12:46:57 PM »
Yes, this is one area where Assange is at his weakest. His insistence on HIS confidentiality when he has seen fit to deny confidentiality to others is, to say the least, hypocritical.    :(  There's no denying that this current "hero" has feet of clay.

As for access to the internet among the world's poor and disadvantaged, there is truth to that. But it only takes a little bit of "juice" to operate a net book and here, solar power is making it possible for those who have never experienced it to learn its power.

It is said that Gutenburg changed the structure of society when his Bible became available to the common people  because it meant that they no longer had to rely on priests to interpret it for them. Something similar is happening today - but it will take a while yet to come to its fruition. 
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Offline Otto Puzzell

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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2010, 12:53:13 PM »
As for access to the internet among the world's poor and disadvantaged, there is truth to that. But it only takes a little bit of "juice" to operate a net book and here, solar power is making it possible for those who have never experienced it to learn its power.

Universal ownership of or access to web-enabled devices is not what I was referring to. I was referring to state-controlled internet filtering of information the powers-that-be deem to be unsuitable for the people they rule.
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Offline MG

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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2010, 02:22:38 PM »
Ah, I take your point, sir. And it is well made.

This is my anthem, that the internet must remain free, unfettered and unfiltered, else its promise will be sucked from it by those who seek to maintain their power and control over us by emasculating it. Julian Assange may be a snake in the grass, posses the morals of a skunk and be out for personal aggrandizement, but none of that is sufficient justification for silencing either him or his work.  :2¢:
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Offline DeAutogids

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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2010, 03:38:20 PM »
Assange can be private about himself and still open up comprimising documents for states.

It is our duty to check what our governments are doing. And might I add we do a louzy job? Assange makes it at least easier to check on what they do.

Offline MG

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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2010, 03:57:57 PM »
Quote
It is our duty to check what our governments are doing.

It has been suggested that 90+% of that which is classified is done so to cover up stupidity, cupidity, criminal behavior or just good old fashioned greed, fraud and corruption. I myself, as a young lieutenant in Saigon responsible for security on my compound was beset by minions of a higher authority who were prepared to go postal because a document with a SECRET cover stapled to it was found blowing about. How could this happen? The fate of the entire free world was threatened by this egregious security breach!    :headache:

I reacted by tracking down the offending document and stomping on it with my government issued combat boot, only to find that it was, in fact, the official menu for dinner at the Officer's Club from two days prior.   :doh:

I have to admit that ever since that event, I have had a hard time viewing "classified" information as vital to our national interests. Perhaps I am just not "Army material", as they say, and if so, I can live with that!   :touched:
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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2010, 06:05:14 PM »
MG, I owed you an answer, even if only a short one.

I said elsewhere in this forum how I felt toward religion, so it will be no surprise to you that I fully agree with you. Even if I fear that you may be a little too optimistic about the power of the internet. Which leads me to a comment about Ultra's reply:

Anti state, anti-war if you like. Pro-market? Huh-huh...


When the USSR and communism collapsed, we heard shouts from everywhere: "this is the end of ideology". It was not. It was just one ideology, the "Market", having won the war against another. Now the Market, having defeated communism, is trying to defeat democracy. It needed democracy, for a time, in order to develop and get stronger. Now democracy is a nuisance to Him.
Hear how the people who believe in the "Market" speak of it, how they see it as almighty. It has power, it has wisdom, it can never fail. In their mouth, "The Market sounds like a name for a new God.
If it cannot tolerate democracy, do you believe it will let it grow on  the internet?  I am no prophet, but I worry about the ever growing importance of publicity on the net. We'll see.
But to be "pro-market" as a sign of a free spirit? Not me, sir. I am too much of an agnostic for that.
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Offline MG

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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2010, 06:09:42 PM »
Wow! That's some valuable insight, Ray.  :thumbsup: Thanks for your thoughts. 
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Offline gilescooperuk

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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2010, 06:11:40 PM »
A though the "Protestant/Catholic" example in Northern Ireland often seemed more of an excuse for murder than anything Christian.

A true story from Northern Island. A family moved there who were Jews and at some point their child was asked if they protestant or catholic. The reply came neither I'm Jewish. After some thought the reply was are you a protestant jew or a catholic jew.....!

On religion I'm agnostic anyway
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Offline Ultra

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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2010, 11:41:51 PM »
Markets aren't a deity nor should they be revered as such and the implication that I did so is poppycock.  Markets are merely the free exchange of products, services and ideas, nothing more or less.   Ray's post here is just another product in the marketplace of ideas.  May the best ideas triumph through the free association and choice that a market guarantees.  

Anti-war (If I like?)  Please.  Democracy is mob rule.  I don't want to be ruled by a mob nor do I understand why anyone would revere that concept.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 11:44:57 PM by Ultra »
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Offline MG

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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2010, 01:49:55 AM »
Quote
On religion I'm agnostic anyway

As are most people. I find. if you happen to catch them in an honest moment!   ;)
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Offline Ray B.

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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2010, 10:42:37 AM »
Charlie, I never implied that you yourself revered the market as a deity. Just that some do.
As for democracy, I heard you say that before. Strangely, I believed that it meant rather "the government of the people, by the people, for the people".
You 're gonna say that this is not in your constitution , but in the Gettysburdg address, and I know what you think of Lincoln.

What I will concede about the market system is that it's superior to communism or other -ism stuff in this that it acknowledged the fact that human nature and activity are far too complex to be ruled, or even explained  by any -ism system, even pretending that it is for humanity's own good.
Now the other flaw and danger of communism is that those ideologies are, for some, another kind of religion.
The market ideology is not at all immune of that danger. That was my point.

It has some other flaws. I'll say more about it some day if I practice my English a little.
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Offline Vincent Vell Vet

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Re: What's It, All About Jesus?
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2010, 12:19:46 PM »
The more I check out the little areas of this site, the more I like it.
You people seem to be the thinking mans' car guys. And that seems rare to me.
I think this is a good site for me. Perfect, in a way.
I think I'll stick around.  :)

Offline Ultra

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Re: What's It All About, Jesus?
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2010, 01:26:53 PM »
Charlie, I never implied that you yourself revered the market as a deity.

No biggie.  In translation an extra post or two will always make clarity the end result.

:)
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