This little beaut is my latest acquisition. What with ammo prices these days it should help make pistol shooting affordable for me again. The holster and three more magazines will be in by the end of the week.
If you are into this sort of thing you can check out a well done review here:
http://www.spentbrass.com/pistol/walther/p22/review.phpI'm really pleased with it. It is perfect for target practice in my back yard.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_P22===================
Quote:
Originally Posted by themonk41
I seriously am on these boards daily multiple times and have no clue what is going on. I know of the lowers being sold. I'm unclear what was so illegal about it. To be honest, if there are legal issues, they aren't mine so personally don't give a ****.
For those who are in the same boat here is a good summary of the legal issues:
==============================
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backwoodz
I want to know are charges being filed?
The two sides of that coin as presented in the thread so far...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zigziggityzoo
To be clear, no FFL/BATF laws were broken in this transaction. Every single transfer thus far has been via an FFL.
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...postcount=1790Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyster
Jeff did not do anything illegal as far as the BATFE is concerned and I DID go to law school.
Only comment I am making we now return to our original programming.
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...postcount=1862Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyster
In this instance it has nothing to do with how much money changed hands. The simple fact is that the lowers were never in Jeff's possession so he never transferred firearms. That is the key.
Extending your position to its logical conclusion would mean that every salesman in your LGS would have to have an FFL. That's just silly.
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...postcount=1945=========================
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra
The difference, however, is that Jeff isn't an employee of CC gun works or any other FFL involved in the transaction. He did make income off of the sale of the firearms in a capacity that could easily be considered "retailing", possession or no.
That said, I do appreciate your reply, thx.
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...postcount=1946Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra
If you are profiting off of the sale of a lot of guns, you could open yourself up to charges of dealing guns without a license. No where in the applicable parts of this regulation does it specify that the profiteer take possession.
Quote:
The US Code says:
(11) The term “dealer” means
(A) any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail,
(B) any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms, or
(C) any person who is a pawnbroker. The term “licensed dealer” means any dealer who is licensed under the provisions of this chapter.
Some further definitions:
(21) The term “engaged in the business” means—
(A) as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured;
(B) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured;
(C) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921 (a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms;
(D) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921 (a)(11)(B), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms, or who occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms;
(E) as applied to an importer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to importing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms imported; and
(F) as applied to an importer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to importing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition imported.
(22) The term “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit” means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection: Provided, That proof of profit shall not be required as to a person who engages in the regular and repetitive purchase and disposition of firearms for criminal purposes or terrorism. For purposes of this paragraph, the term “terrorism” means activity, directed against United States persons, which—
(A) is committed by an individual who is not a national or permanent resident alien of the United States;
(B) involves violent acts or acts dangerous to human life which would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States; and
(C) is intended—
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping.
There is still plenty of grey area to get oneself hung up in. Bottom line is the law is sufficiently muddy to allow ATF to charge folks as they wish and let a jury sort it out. As mentioned above, it's not profit by itself that is the issue, it's intent. The law says "principle objective". So all they have to do is prove you were TRYING to make a living at it and you are toast.
If you're into high stakes gambling this should be lots of fun.
I chatted with my lawyer today over a beer. His take can be summed up as follows:
The only way you will get a specific answer for a specific set of circumstances is to hear it during a trial.
Or we can take Zig and Shyster's word for it.
Good luck, Jeff. I think you could find yourself in hot water.
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...postcount=2189Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiianpool
I got in trouble for suggesting this with investigator
Larson from some here that are worried about MGO even though directed towards Jeff.
Next stop IRS. Forget to pay your taxes on delivered goods Jeff or are you going to put in on someone else
AG stop makes sense too
Lots of options and they are all free to execute
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...postcount=2191==============
And Jeff has gone silent and closed his account.
You decide.
