Virginia Tech Campus Reels From Shooting That Leaves at Least 32 Dead

[Ultra]

Security in the Homeland, an update.   

Students and faculty at Virginia Tech University were in shock Monday after a gunman shot and killed at least 32 people and injured 21 during the most deadly shooting spree in U.S. history.

Federal law enforcement officials told FOX News that the 32 dead includes the shooter. Police at the campus in Blacksburg, Va., said there was only one shooter responsible for the two shootings, which occurred about two hours apart from each other.

But there are still many questions left unanswered, including who the shooter was, whether he was a student, why no one saw or stopped him in between shootings, and why he decided to launch the killing spree.

"The university was struck today with a tragedy of monumental proportions," Virginia Tech President Charles Steger said during a press conference shortly after noon. "The university is shocked and horrified that this would befall our campus ... I cannot begin to convey my own personal sense of loss over this senselessness of such an incomprehensible and heinous act."

Steger said school officials are notifying victims' next of kin, and state police and the FBI are still investigating the various crime scenes. They are still trying to identify all the victims. The university will set up counseling centers for students and faculty.

The Web site for the campus newspaper, The Collegiate Times, reported that police have recovered two 9mm handguns. That report was not yet confirmed by FOX News.

At 7:15 a.m. Monday, a 911 call came in to the campus police department concerning an incident at West Ambler Johnston, a residence hall, and that there were multiple shooting victims. While that investigation was underway, a second shooting was reported in Norris Hall, located at the opposite end of the 2,600-acre campus.

Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said at least one person was killed at West Ambler Johnston but several others were injured in that shooting. The others were killed in Norris Hall, Flinchum said.

Virginia Tech is planning a 4 p.m. EDT press conference.

Flinchum said the Norris Hall gunman was dead, but wouldn't say whether the shooter killed himself.

Junior David Jenkins told FOX News he heard screaming in his dorm inside West Ambler Johnston residence hall Monday morning, but didn't know what it was. He later heard from other residents that there was a gunman in the building. Jenkins later heard of the mass shootings at Norris Hall.

"From what I heard, he chained up some of the doors so people couldn't get in and he basically was just going to every classroom trying to get in, and just started shooting inside classrooms," Jenkins said.

One of his friends was in a Norris classroom targeted by the gunman, Jenkins said.

"He was very fortunate," Jenkins said. "He said every single person in the room was shot, killed and was in the ground. He laid on the ground with everyone ... he played dead and he was OK."

Victims were being treated at Montgomery Regional Hospital and Carilion New River Valley Medical Center in Christiansburg with gunshot wounds and other injuries.

President Bush was "horrified" of news of shooting rampage at Virginia Tech, said White House spokeswoman Dana Perino. The White House is monitoring the incident. Local NBC affiliate WSLS reported that Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine, who was heading for a meeting in Tokyo, Japan, for a two-week trade mission, is now returning to the United States. The U.S. Senate and House of Representatives both held a moment of silence.

Last August, the campus was closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard and a sheriff's deputy involved in a massive manhunt. The accused gunman, William Morva , faces capital murder charges.

On April 13, the campus closed three of its academic halls after they received a letter stating that explosive devices were in the building. Classes were canceled for the remainder of the day. A bomb threat was also made against Torgerson Hall on April 2. A $5,000 reward has been offered for any information on those threats.

"For some reason, this just seemed a little different ... it was more than just a sick joke someone was playing," one student told FOX News about those bomb threats.

There is no connection so far between the bomb threats and Monday's shooting.

Student Daniel Smith was walking across field heading toward Norris Hall with his girlfriend when he heard yelling, then a police officer whisked they pair off to a patrol car to safety.

"We weren't quite sure but we did see police taking out people who were heavily hurt," Smith said.

Smith, along with other students, said it was scary enough having a gunman roaming campus on the first day of classes last year, but between that, recent bomb threats and Monday's shooting, it's almost too much to take in.

"I never thought it could actually happen, at a big school like this but a small community. Growing up with columbine and 9/11, it hits you in the hurt but I've never felt this before," said Smith, an engineering student. "I'm scared to see the list [of the dead victims] when that list comes out, because I'm bound to know some students on there ... it's tearing at me. I've never had a big loss before, this is terrible."

Virginia Tech student Blake Harrison said he was on his way to class near Norris Hall when he saw chaos.

"This teacher comes flying out of Norris, he's bleeding from his arm or his shoulder ... all these students were coming out of Norris trying to take shelter in Randolph [Hall]. All these kids were freaked out," Harrison said.

The students and faculty were barricading themselves in their classrooms after what one person described as an Asian male wearing a vest opened fire.

The shooter was "wearing a vest covered in clips was just unloading on their door, going from classroom to classroom ... they said it never seemed like it was going to stop and there was just blood all over," Harrison said.

Matt Merone, a campus senior, was on his way to campus Monday morning when he saw a police officer grab a male student who was bleeding from his stomach area, and put him in a police vehicle, presumably en route to a hospital. Other students were seen jumping out windows to escape the gunman.

Student Amanda Johnson was walking between Norris and Randolph halls around 9:45 a.m. when she heard six shots fired.

"I've been target shooting since I was a little kid so I knew what the sounds were," said Johnson, who saw a male student jump out of a Norris Hall window to escape.

"It just seemed like students were trying to figure out any way to get out of that building as soon as possible," added student Mike O'Brien.

Many students didn't check their e-mail before heading to class Monday, so they didn't read the school's warnings about the first shooting. Those who did check their e-mail said they stayed put.

"There are police driving throughout the neighborhoods with a loudspeaker saying, 'this is an emergency, everyone stay inside, we're looking for suspicious activity," said Brittany Sammon, a senior Virginia Tech student staying at an apartment off campus. "There's no one outside at all, there's no traffic, there's nothing ... everyone's doing what they said."

Premeditated Murder?

The FBI joined police on the scene to investigate. Agency spokesman Richard Kolko in Washington said there was no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack, "but all avenues will be explored."

Senior official with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives told FOX News that agency's response to the Virginia Tech incident was "immediate," and the bureau is making all of its local and national resources, including its crimes lab, available to the Virginia State Police.

Ten ATF agents are now on the Virginia Tech campus assisting with weapons identification. They are collecting shell casings and running some preliminary tests on scene. Once the weapon has been identified, they will begin an "urgent trace" to determine its origins — where it came from, to whom it was registered, and its history of ownership. All material will be sent to the ATF's national crime lab in Maryland.

The ATF is also assisting with "forensic mapping" of the crime scene — a painstaking process employed by investigators that 'maps out' the scene and incident in minute detail.

Former FBI Director Bill Gavin said if reports that the shooter chained the doors to Norris Hall are true, that is "definite proof of premeditation," as is the number of magazines and rounds of ammunition he apparently had.

"He didn't take that just to shoot one particular person," Gavin said. "He had to have something going on there that said he was going to shoot a whole bunch of people at the same time."

All classes were canceled for Monday and Tuesday but campus will open at 8 a.m. EDT Tuesday. Faculty and staff on certain parts of campus were told to go home.

Families wishing to reunite with students are suggested to meet at the Inn at Virginia Tech. School officials are making plans for a convocation Tuesday at noon at Cassell Coliseum.

Virginia Tech has the largest full-time student population in Virginia, with more than 25,000 students. It consists of eight colleges and graduate school and offers 60 bachelor's degree programs and 140 master's and doctoral degree programs.

The main campus includes more than 100 buildings located on 2,600 acres, and includes an airport.

[GRAYWOLF]

Statement from DownsizeDC I received...

Subject: Virginia Tech killings

Did laws prohibiting gun possession, or carrying guns onto school campuses, prevent what happened at Virginia Tech today?

Obviously not. The killer ignored any such laws.

Did gun prohibition laws perhaps prevent someone at Virginia Tech from stopping the killer before his death toll rose so high? Perhaps so.

Law abiding citizens tend to obey the gun prohibition laws. Criminals do not.

We are not calling for any action on this issue. We are not politicians, who, in moments of crisis, want to pose as saviors. Instead, we just want to encourage people to stop and think.

We also want to express our condolences to the family members and friends of the promising young people whose lives were taken in this criminal act.

[Boxer2500]

I'm sure there will be another push to take away what's left of the Second Amendment after this one.

The fact remains, nothing we can do will ever stop a determined psycho from carrying out something like this.

[MG]

I will be criticized for this, I am sure, but the citizens of Iraq put up with this every hour of every day and have for 4+ years.

This kind of stuff rips your heart out.

Imagine how THEY feel....

[Ultra]

I will be criticized for this, I am sure, but the citizens of Iraq put up with this every hour of every day and have for 4+ years.

This kind of stuff rips your heart out.

Imagine how THEY feel....

Very rarely does one lunatic match the state when it comes to killings of the innocent. 

[Boxer2500]

Very rarely does one lunatic match the state when it comes to killings of the innocent. 

That's all too true... sadly.

[Rich]

Psychologically, it's much harder to deal with the death of a loved one via nutcase than it is to lose one in a "war."  In the case of Iraq, I wonder the effect of the loss of one due to a war started by a nutcase.  In my case, with either of my boys, the empty chair at dinner and hushed bedroom, it wouldn't matter.

Regardless of my "expertise" (some people actually think I know what I'm doing), I can never understand this kind of shit and the response in my gut is oftentimes homicidal in its own right.  Perhaps KVonnegut was right:  We are a virus, the earth has recognized us as such and is doing everything in its power to rid itself of the infection.

[Boxer2500]

Anyone else wish the bastard hadn't offed himself? That's the coward's way out, he didn't even get the chance to look back and realize what he'd done.

It's times like these when I dearly hope there's an afterlife, complete with fire and brimstone.

[Ultra]

"If my patients knew what I really thought of them in my head, they would run."

Quoted from some TV psychologist in a commercial I saw recently for a new program whose name I can't recall.

I heard the line and thought of you, Rich.

[Rich]

Hmmm...not flattering, per se', but truth rarely is.....

[Ultra]

Hmmm...not flattering, per se', but truth rarely is.....

It wasn't meant to be unflattering. 

[Rich]

We librul psychology-loving cheese-eating surrender monkeys like people to think we're kind to the core...

I deal with criminals all day long and have for over eighteen years.  I've about had enough......

[Boxer2500]

Here's something I've always wondered. If a shrink has an inkling that someone might be planning something like this, do they have an obligation to tell the authorities?

[Ultra]

We librul psychology-loving cheese-eating surrender monkeys like people to think we're kind to the core...

Ah, yes, but I remember the Howard Dean thread.

[Boxer2500]

We librul psychology-loving cheese-eating surrender monkeys like people to think we're kind to the core...

Ah, yes, but I remember the Howard Dean thread.

I think that one must have been before my time. I *do* recall watching the Dean Scream on live TV, though.

[Ultra]

We librul psychology-loving cheese-eating surrender monkeys like people to think we're kind to the core...

Ah, yes, but I remember the Howard Dean thread.

I think that one must have been before my time. I *do* recall watching the Dean Scream on live TV, though.

It really started getting good on page 3.

[Tifosi]

Regardless of my "expertise" (some people actually think I know what I'm doing), I can never understand this kind of shit and the response in my gut is oftentimes homicidal in its own right.  Perhaps KVonnegut was right:  We are a virus, the earth has recognized us as such and is doing everything in its power to rid itself of the infection.

The Baptist preacher in me would say that this is why we're in need of a Saviour, even after we're saved...

Half of my blood is Cain's blood,
Half of my blood is Abel's...
One eye looks to Heaven,
The other looks for trouble.

Dan

[MG]

we're in need of a Saviour

An interesting point.  WHY do we posit the existence of a Savior?  It is endemic in every civilization and every religion. There is NO empirical evidence of a God. The teachings of Jesus, powerful as they are, are merely recycled ideas from long before His time. We yearn for someone or something else to take away our troubles. We trust in the afterlife because slogging through real life is often too painful to bear.

I shudder at the "Its in the hands of Allah" mentality of the muslim world.  Why?  Because it removes any need for personal accountability. Its the obverse of "The Devil made me do it" coin.

Religion - all religion - absolves us of personal accountability. And that makes it easier for us to excuse ourselves for all sorts of irrational and vicious acts, from warfare to slaughtering students at Virginia Tech.

I also cannot agree with Rich that there is - empirically - any difference between the loss of a loved on in war or in random violence. Dead is dead. And the hole that gets torn in the fabric of the lives of those left behind is just as virulent in either case. Society tries to offer justifications such as "Oh, your son/daughter was a HERO, or PATRIOT. But the truth is that their fragile body has been ripped asunder and pureed and subjected to unendurable pain that is beyond imagination. To those left behind, the effect is the same as if the child had been muirdered outside a night club or whatever.

We really need to stop looking to totems for answers. We really need to look within ourselves and start demanding accountability of ourselves and our leaders.  THAT is the true, and perhaps ONLY hope for salvation of the human race.

We know return you to your regular programming, already in progress.......   [/rant]

[Rich]

You're ethically and legally (in all states, I believe) to break confidentiality and inform authorities and any other potentially affected individuals if you have clear and compelling evidence that someone is going to hurt themselves or someone else.  Usually, "clear and compelling" indicates the person has told you of his/her intentions and his/her plans to act on same and if the person has the means and capabilities to carry out said plan.  Based on the "Tarasoff Ruling" where a shrink was informed by a client that he intended to kill a specific individual and went ahead and did so w/o the therapist informing anyone due to confidentiality concerns.  The family of the victim sued, and thus the ruling...

Philosophically, from the dawn of man and the development of the forebrain, it seems we've needed "purpose" and "meaning" to our existence.  Given that we've always had an inflated view of ourselves, the development of a metaphysical being who is greater than the universe and has an inexplicable and focused preoccupation with us, me in particular, was pretty predictable and also indicative that our forebrains need a bit more advancement.

I think there's a "plan" and believe in an afterlife and a greater being, considering it important to follow teachings of good and fellowship, but I truly do not believe that "the Lord will provide" me food, shelter, healing, whatever.  He's provided me with all I need should I choose to use it...therein lies the rub.

[MG]

an inflated view of ourselves

Indeed!  For instance, take a look at the pics from the Hubble and THEN tell me that in the midst of all that vastness, in which we are about as significant as a pi-meson (and about as fleeting in the scheme of things), that someone or something gives a Flying Fig Newton about whether we win the big game against State this weekend or that we are suffering or finding an abundant supply of black eyed virgins for all the martyrs is just ridiculous, in my unbidden estimation.

Our PURPOSE is NOT to prepare for the afterlife. Our PURPOSE is to struggle for self knowledge and to advance the overall cause of humankind to the fullest extent possible WHILE WE ARE HERE!  All this folderol about what happens after death is just so much eye wash, in my opinion, and it distracts us from what is truly important.

LIfe is the most precious of gifts. All too often we squander it in some deluded fantasy that everything will come right in the end and that its all out of our hands anyway.  I believe that there is a power, a spirit, an IDEA, perhaps, that transcends the ability of mere mortals to comprehend.  There is SO much we do not know. Whenever anyone tells me they have the answers, I automatically categorize them as a lunatic.  And that includes folks like Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz who think becasue they BELIEVE that the middle east is begging for a democracy transfusion, that it is OK to murder hundreds of thousands of their people to honor their request.

Belief is, by definition, the willful choice to discredit the obvious and to transfer responsibility elsewhere. Every functioning human being has a DUTY during life to counteract such skewed thinking.

That is all.   


Oh, and by the way, Rich, I miss these little tete a tetes we used to have. You are one of the primary reasons I wandered over here in the first place. Since then, I have found other reasons to return, but, ab initio, as we used to say in conversational Latin class, it was a case of "If Mohammed will not come to the mountain, the mountain will go to Mohammed."     

[Ultra]

Our PURPOSE is to struggle for self knowledge and to advance the overall cause of humankind to the fullest extent possible

Our purpose is to procreate and survive. 

That is all.

[Arthur Dent]

Our PURPOSE is to struggle for self knowledge and to advance the overall cause of humankind to the fullest extent possible

Our purpose is to procreate and survive. 

That is all.

or survive long enough to procreate 

[Ultra]

Our PURPOSE is to struggle for self knowledge and to advance the overall cause of humankind to the fullest extent possible

Our purpose is to procreate and survive. 

That is all.

or survive long enough to procreate 

Speak for yourself.   

[Allan L]

Caution: rant coming.
We Europeans who are accustomed to fairly strict laws about the ownership of firearms have had similar strange acts perpetrated by strange people, but not very often.
What surprises many of us is the surprise that seems to be universal when some event like this happens in the country that flaunts the "right to bear arms" as if it were natural and sensible.
Rant over.

[Ultra]

Caution: rant coming.
We Europeans who are accustomed to fairly strict laws about the ownership of firearms have had similar strange acts perpetrated by strange people, but not very often.
What surprises many of us is the surprise that seems to be universal when some event like this happens in the country that flaunts the "right to bear arms" as if it were natural and sensible.
Rant over.

  Thanks for the rant.

If all of us still had that "right to bear arms" and excersized it here in the States, I think it is safe to say this guy would not have killed so many people.  Right to own and right to bear are not equivalent ideas.

That he spent so much time acquiring the weapons implied this crime was planned.   By definition, no gun law will stop a criminal.