Author Topic: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online  (Read 4236 times)

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Offline Ultra

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Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« on: September 10, 2006, 03:09:00 PM »
Taken from the Guardian

Last week I wrote a load of nonsense about flags and idiocy; as well as appearing in print, it also turned up on the Guardian's "Comment is Free" blog-o-site, where passersby are encouraged to scrawl their own responses beneath the original article.

Some people disagreed with the piece, some agreed; some found it funny, some didn't. For half a nanosecond I was tempted to join in the discussion. And then I remembered that all internet debates, without exception, are entirely futile. So I didn't.

There's no point debating anything online. You might as well hurl shoes in the air to knock clouds from the sky. The internet's perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain't one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional "live audience" quickly conspire to create a "perfect storm" of perpetual bickering.

Stumble in, take umbrage with someone, trade a few blows, and within about two or three exchanges, the subject itself goes out the window. Suddenly you're simply arguing about arguing. Eventually, one side gets bored, comes to its senses, or dies, and the row fizzles out: just another needless belch in the swirling online guffstorm.

But not for long, because online quarrelling is also addictive, in precisely the same way Tetris is addictive. It appeals to the "lab rat" part of your brain; the annoying, irrepressible part that adores repetitive pointlessness and would gleefully make you pop bubblewrap till Doomsday if it ever got its way. An unfortunate few, hooked on the futile thrill of online debate, devote their lives to its cause. They roam the internet, actively seeking out viewpoints they disagree with, or squat on messageboards, whining, needling, sneering, over-analysing each new proclamation - joylessly fiddling, like unhappy gorillas doomed to pick lice from one another's fur for all eternity.

Still, it's not all moan moan moan in NetLand. There's also the occasional puerile splutter to liven things up.

In the debate sparked by my gibberish outpouring, it wasn't long before rival posters began speculating about the size of their opponent's dicks. It led me to wonder - has the world of science ever investigated a casual link between penis size and male political leaning?

I'd theorise that, on the whole, rightwing penises are short and stubby, hence their owners' constant fury. Lefties, on the other hand, are spoiled for length, yet boast no girth whatsoever - which explains their pained confusion. I flit from one camp to the other, of course, which is why mine's so massive it's got a full-size human knee in the middle. And a back. A big man's back.

Anyway, if we must debate things online, we might as well debate that. It's not like we'll ever resolve any of that other bullshit, is it?

Click. Mine's bigger than yours. Click. No it isn't. Click. Yes it is. Click. Refresh, repost, repeat to fade.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2006, 03:12:03 PM by Ultra »
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Offline Otto Puzzell

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2006, 02:37:38 AM »
Yep.
You wanna be the man, you gotta Name That Car!

Offline Rich

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2006, 10:02:20 AM »
Totally and completely...my life has been much more peaceful since I have abandoned described efforts.

Offline Ultra

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2006, 10:39:35 PM »
I have no use for the debates anymore, either.

When I became the target, rather than the topic(s) being discussed, I knew it was time to move on.  Situations like that caused me to lose interest in holding court over a sandbox.

 :-X
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Offline roopull

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2006, 06:25:17 AM »
I disagree. ;D

If winning - whatever that means for you - is your goal...  yeah, it's futile.  If you're interested in actually building relationships with people, the debates are simply one aspect of the relationship...  much like 'real world' relationships.

Debating, without the relationship investment in the person you're debating with, is exactly as the author suggests.  Why debate with someone you don't care for?  It's not too far removed from picking a fist fight with a stranger.  Autoweek's dismantling of the CC made it impossible to continue the relationship building aspect of the forum, so it degraded into a clone of almost every other mega-forum out there...  plenty to discuss, but little value in the discussion.  Remove the relationships (or the environment that encourages them) and you get a much larger forum filled with strangers.  Keep the relationship nurturing environment & you'll end up with a smaller, but much more closely knit group...


...that, of course, is just my lil' opinion.  Discard at will.
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Offline Ultra

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2006, 10:00:21 AM »
I disagree. ;D

If you're interested in actually building relationships with people, the debates are simply one aspect of the relationship...  much like 'real world' relationships.

From my perspective, I can and have built better online relationships, sans debate.

I think the debates destroy far more potential relationships than they foster.

YMMV

An unfortunate few, hooked on the futile thrill of online debate, devote their lives to its cause. They roam the internet, actively seeking out viewpoints they disagree with, or squat on messageboards, whining, needling, sneering, over-analysing each new proclamation - joylessly fiddling, like unhappy gorillas doomed to pick lice from one another's fur for all eternity.

I'll pass.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2006, 10:12:46 AM by Ultra »
“Honi soit qui mal y pense”


Click the pic....... Name the car

Offline Ultra

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2006, 10:59:26 AM »
I disagree. ;D

If winning - whatever that means for you - is your goal...  yeah, it's futile.

After your performance today, Brian, your goal has never been clearer.

  :o
“Honi soit qui mal y pense”


Click the pic....... Name the car

Offline Ultra

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2006, 12:06:52 PM »
Well Brian, aka JustMem, aka CeeVeeGee, aka_spectre@yahoo.com, aka Ultra at .us, aka Roopull, whose server is in Lawrenceville GA., my dick is bigger than yours.

http://www.automobileforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=60806&view=getnewpost

You and Einberliner, both like to use multiple id's across boards and at the same boards in order to fuck with the other members.

Both from Atlanta.

Hmmmm.

Have fun on your island, Gilligan.

Edited to keep the evidence in one place, just for the record.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2006, 12:26:44 AM by Ultra »
“Honi soit qui mal y pense”


Click the pic....... Name the car

Offline Ultra

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2006, 10:26:48 AM »
I am a filthy spammer.

Nice post, Karn.  It is a shame it has to be like that though.

 :(
“Honi soit qui mal y pense”


Click the pic....... Name the car

Offline Otto Puzzell

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2006, 11:44:14 AM »
I agree. The whole situation saddens me.
You wanna be the man, you gotta Name That Car!

Offline Shay

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2006, 12:46:22 PM »
Ha Ha.

I have three forums that I run now. One is deader than Forest Lawn on a Tuesday afternoon, the other is a small close knit group of about two dozen, and the third......

Well that one is a huge forum with well over 3000 members that has been established for six years. There is a growing "paid" membership component, and the group has become a close knit family of sorts. We see hundreds of new posts a day. I was fortunate to take over this site from a good friend of mine, who built it. He had has his fill, found a new passion and I was there to take the reins.

What he had in place all those years was a policy that certain subjects were never discussed. Those generally include politics for the most part, racial and other "hot" issues. It is kept strictly to cars and other family business.

It works.

Since taking over the site and enthusiast group about a year ago. I have maintained the policy. We "nuke" most threads that get into political or other controversial debate. Sometimes there are threads that have a political tint, but have to do with cars such as legislation or gas prices. Those are closely watched. We have about 10 moderators who heve eyes on the site almost 24/7.

Some might say, and have said it is censorship. They are right. I call it editing. But in my view there are plenty of other forums in which to engage in those things. In mine, there is none of it - almost. I have to admit I am the worst at taking a dump in a thread, but have gotten better and holding my tongue.

For the most part, in a community of thousands of individuals with varying backgrounds, walks of life, ideas that have one strong thing in common, it's best for the bond and health of the group itself to keep to the subject at hand. Just what I have learned.

That's www.fnsweet.com BTW
« Last Edit: October 25, 2006, 01:14:56 PM by Shay »

Offline Ultra

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2006, 01:26:08 PM »
What he had in place all those years was a policy that certain subjects were never discussed. Those generally include politics for the most part, racial and other "hot" issues. It is kept strictly to cars and other family business.

It works.

I appreciate your thoughts on this issue.  I have no intention of putting the brakes on any discussion here at AutoPuzzles.  When a discussion turns to something decidedly sour, however, I am likely to remind people of proper decorum.  I intend on making it a personal policy here as well and will hold myself to that same standard.

Wish me luck.  :)
“Honi soit qui mal y pense”


Click the pic....... Name the car

Offline MG

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2006, 07:26:39 AM »
Shay is 100% right. If you want to build a large and loyal base, keep the incendiary subjects hidden in a closet. There ARE sites where you can say any damn thing you please (I can provide a link if asked!) but this is not one of them. This site is about AutoPuzzles.  Do what you do do well, and let someone else cater to the whackos and nutjobs. (I can provide a link if asked!)    ;D

PS:

a casual link between penis size and male political leaning

Sometimes it is good to have an editor review your work.  The issue is not whether there is a "casual" link but rather whether there is a "causal" link.  I myself have often pondered whether there is a causal link between the size of a woman's mouth and her other orifice with lips. From my casual research, I postulate there is. 

But I digress....... :-[
« Last Edit: October 27, 2006, 07:32:42 AM by MG »
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Offline Ultra

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2006, 10:58:10 AM »
I am gonna have to disagree with your characterizations of what AutoPuzzles is, MG.   A properly moderated forum is capable of hosting any discussion.   Do you not remember Mark F?  CC ran fine till he abandoned it.

For the record, I'm gonna do it just like they do it:

http://www.audiomastersforum.net/amforum/index.php

I haven't ever seen it done any better on any board.  The quality of their general discussions is superb.  The best I have ever read.   No topic is off limits.  Check out their General Discussion section and see for yourself.

 8)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2006, 12:36:59 PM by Ultra »
“Honi soit qui mal y pense”


Click the pic....... Name the car

Offline Otto Puzzell

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2006, 12:51:21 PM »
MG makes some very good points, IMO. 
You wanna be the man, you gotta Name That Car!

Offline Ultra

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2006, 05:12:19 PM »
MG makes some very good points, IMO. 

Yes, he does.

After discussing it amongst ourselves for clarities sake and for the sake of the community, it has been agreed by the staff of www.AutoPuzzles.com that this site is one where people can speak to any topic.

 :)
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Click the pic....... Name the car

Offline Shay

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2006, 11:33:11 PM »
Hell MG. Good to see you!  ;)

Offline MG

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2006, 06:28:02 AM »
Good to see you, too, Sam!  Funny how we keep bumping into folks from the old CC in different places.   ;D

My remarks above are pretty much stolen from my discussions with David Craven, aka Jagman, at RoadAmerica last month. As you know, he is a member of a tractor/lawn equipment site that boasts thousands of members. I mentioned that it seemed odd to me that a place that deals with the latest in John Deere design and crabgrass control could have so MUCH activity when there are so many more car nuts in the world. I even asked him to investigate a link-up between .us and that site, which he was kind enough to do. The reply was that they ban General Discussion topics entirely and would not link with us, or .us, so long as we had such a forum.  Their ban was not based on any philosophical beliefs but rather on experience.

The only reason I bring it up here is because of the proposed connection between AP and DED. I think that would be a truly marvelous thing for all concerned but wonder if your General Discussion forum may not having a negative impact on that relationship.

In any event, it is my opinion and worth precisely what you paid for it - perhaps even less!    ;D

So in conclusion, may I offer this thought from Neil Young?  "Long may you run."   :)
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the number of moments that take your breath away!

Offline Ultra

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2006, 10:07:25 AM »
In any event, it is my opinion and worth precisely what you paid for it - perhaps even less!    ;D

Perhaps.  ;)
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Offline trobinett

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Re: Supposing ... There's only one thing worth debating online
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2006, 09:41:02 AM »
Stick to your gun's Ultra, if anyone can pull it off, you can. :)

Looking good so far.