Author Topic: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill  (Read 2635 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline GRAYWOLF

  • Future Media Mogul
  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 1640
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 19
  • High School
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • My Blog
Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« on: February 12, 2010, 12:41:04 PM »
WASHINGTON – Senate Democrats scrapped a bipartisan jobs bill in favor of one they say is leaner and focused solely on putting Americans back to work, and they're all but daring Republicans to vote against it.

The new, stripped-down proposal followed criticism that the bipartisan version wouldn't create many jobs.

The switch brought sharp accusations of reneging from Republicans who thought they had a deal, jeopardizing a brief attempt at bipartisan lawmaking.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's latest bill focuses on several popular provisions aimed at boosting job creation, including a new tax break negotiated with Republicans for companies that hire unemployed workers and for small businesses that purchase new equipment. It also would renew highway programs and help states and local governments finance large infrastructure projects.

Reid, D-Nev., put forward the pared-back plan after Senate Democrats balked at a broader bill stuffed with unrelated provisions sought by lobbyists for business groups and doctors. The surprise blew apart an agreement with key Republicans like Chuck Grassley of Iowa, who worked with Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., for weeks to produce a bill containing the extra provisions.

The original bill had won support from across the political spectrum, from President Barack Obama as well as conservative Republicans in the Senate, offering the promise of a rare bipartisan package in a Congress that has been gripped by partisan fights. To get that support, however, the package had morphed into a 361-page grab bag of provisions that included extending benefits to the unemployed and tax breaks for businesses.

Now, the bipartisan agreement is off.

"Our side isn't sure that the Republicans are real interested in developing good policy and to move forward together," said Sen. Thomas Carper, D-Del. "Instead, they are more inclined to play rope-a-dope again. My own view is, let's test them."

Said Reid: "Republicans are going to have to make a choice. I don't know in logic what they could say to oppose this."

Reid officially put the measure before the Senate on Thursday evening, setting up a key test vote when the chamber returns the week of Feb. 22. He'll need at least one GOP vote to prevail in a filibuster challenge.

Republicans said they were blind-sided by Reid's about-face.

Grassley spokeswoman Jill Kozeny said in an e-mail that Reid "pulled the rug out from work to build broad-based support for tax relief and other efforts to help the private sector recover from the economic crisis."

The bigger bill got a decidedly mixed reception at a luncheon meeting of Democrats, many of whom were uncomfortable with supporting a bill containing so many provisions unrelated to creating jobs, including loans for chicken producers and aid to catfish farmers.

The provisions also included a $31 billion package of tax breaks for individuals and businesses, an extension of several parts of the USA Patriot Act and higher payments for doctors facing Medicare payment cuts.

The surprise move appears to insulate Democrats from criticism that greeted the earlier, lobbyist-backed legislation first leaked on Tuesday and officially unveiled by Baucus and Grassley — to praise from the White House — only hours before Reid's announcement.

The centerpiece of Reid's new bill is a $13 billion payroll tax credit for companies that hire unemployed workers. The idea, by Sens. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., and Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, would exempt businesses hiring unemployed workers in 2010 from the 6.2 percent Social Security payroll tax for those hires.

It also would provide an additional $1,000 tax credit for workers retained for a full year and deposit an additional $20 billion into the federal highway trust fund — money that would have to be borrowed. There's also $2 billion to subsidize bond issues by state and local governments for large infrastructure projects

But Republicans are irate at the tactics and said Reid had gone back on a deal reached with some of the Senate's heaviest hitters, including Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun."-Patrick Henry

Offline Ultra

  • Founder, Publisher Emeritus &
  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 7506
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 20
  • More than you bargained for
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • AutoPuzzles
Re: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2010, 12:43:22 PM »
Stop spending our money and let us keep it and put it in the market.  THAT will get people back to work.
“Honi soit qui mal y pense”


Click the pic....... Name the car

Offline MG

  • Free Radical
  • *
  • Posts: 1794
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 12
  • Designated Driver
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2010, 02:00:13 PM »
I was gonna start a thread using this editorial from the NY Times as the focus of debate. But since there is a thread about the "jobs bill" already, I might as well just add this to the mix.

The purpose of posting this is NOT to endorse the Times' position. The purpose is to inquire more deeply into just what - IN ANYTHING - the US Congress should do about unemployment in present day America. It seems to me that extending unemployment benefits is a good idea. There have been several articles in the press about the devastation that long term unemployment visits on the finances and assets of the unemployed and how there is a "hangover" effect even when they find work, because most of their assets are gone and there are often large debts to pay off that were run up during the period of unemployment.

But is that something the gummint should concern itself with?

I await your thoughts.   :D




February 12, 2010
Editorial
How Not to Write a Jobs Bill

The jobs bill emerging in the Senate is pathetic, both as a response to joblessness and as an example of legislation deemed capable of winning bipartisan support.

An $85 billion proposal put forward Thursday morning by Max Baucus, the chairman of the Finance Committee, and by Charles Grassley, the committee’s top Republican, scarcely began to grapple with the $266 billion in provisions for jobs and stimulus that President Obama proposed in his budget. It was not even in the same league as the modest House-passed $154 billion jobs bill.

Worse, about half of the proposal had nothing to do with new jobs. The single largest chunk, about $31 billion, went to renew expiring tax breaks that are generally useful but unrelated to jobs. Another $10 billion would renew an expiring Medicare payment formula so doctors wouldn’t face a pay cut.

And, by Thursday afternoon, many Democrats said they could not support the lopsided proposal. So the majority leader, Harry Reid, decided to hold a vote on a stripped-down, $15 billion version in late February. The rest of the package, plus many other job-creation ideas, would be left for another day.

With 14.8 million Americans unemployed — more than 40 percent of them for more than six months — the smaller package is so puny as to be meaningless. Most of the $15 billion would cover the cost of a payroll tax holiday in 2010 for employers that hire unemployed workers. Since there are more than six unemployed workers for every job opening, a tax break for hiring is worth a try. But the proposed credit is too small to have a noticeable impact. At best, it would create about 250,000 additional jobs from April through the end of the year, according to an analysis by Moody’s Economy.com.

An even bigger problem is that the hiring credit is unlikely to work as intended unless it’s paired with other federal support to generate and maintain consumer demand — mainly extended unemployment benefits and more fiscal aid to states. No matter what Congress does to lower the cost of labor, employers won’t hire unless they believe demand will be sufficient to sell whatever the business produces. Absent unemployment benefits (which will expire at the end of February if Congress does not extend them) and aid to hard-pressed states, there are, as yet, no compelling signs that consumer demand will hold up this year.

At a minimum, a credible jobs package must extend unemployment benefits through 2010. Piecemeal extensions only ensure that lawmakers will have to return to the issue repeatedly, creating avoidable uncertainty for unemployed workers and for businesses that rely on the consumer demand generated by jobless benefits.

A credible package also must provide fiscal aid to states, which continue to be slammed by falling tax revenues just as more people need help. Without more aid, states will have to cut spending and raise taxes to close an estimated $142 billion budget gap for fiscal year 2011, which starts on July 1 for most states. Last year’s gap was $125 billion. Next year’s is anticipated to be $118 billion.

What senators don’t understand or choose to ignore is that state budget cuts mean layoffs. State and local governments are among the nation’s largest employers, responsible for 15 percent of the labor force, about the same share as the health care sector and far larger than manufacturing or the financial sector. Since August 2008, states and localities have eliminated 151,000 jobs.

State budget cuts also end or reduce payments to private contractors and to recipients of social programs. That reduces demand, which leads to more job loss.

The $15 billion Senate proposal may win Republican votes, but better-than-nothing is not nearly good enough. Neither is a pledge to do more later. A full response to joblessness is already overdue.

Correction:
A previous version of this editorial misstated next year's budget gap. It should have read $118 billion, not $118 million.
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the number of moments that take your breath away!

Offline Ultra

  • Founder, Publisher Emeritus &
  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 7506
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 20
  • More than you bargained for
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • AutoPuzzles
Re: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2010, 02:08:36 PM »
Nothing would create jobs faster than bringing the boys home, pegging the currency to a commodity to prevent more erosion of the value of the dollar and dismantling the Federal leviathan down to the limits prescribed by the Constitution.  Nothing else has any chance against the debt we are facing.  Extending unemployment benefits is very bad idea.  We cannot borrow from China to pay people who refuse to take jobs because they don't pay enough to offset the loss of the unemployment check.   

Wanna create jobs?  Lower the minimum wage.
“Honi soit qui mal y pense”


Click the pic....... Name the car

Offline GRAYWOLF

  • Future Media Mogul
  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 1640
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 19
  • High School
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • My Blog
Re: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2010, 04:21:07 PM »
Raising taxes on doctors will create job loss.

Raising taxes on other businesses will create job loss.

Jobs created by government are either temporary (road construction, etc) or a severe waste of resources and costs real jobs. It is ridiculous that government is the largest employer!

The only way government can have a positive effect on jobs is by reducing interference (lower taxes, less regulation, repeal minimum wage, etc...all costs employers money that could go to employee pay).

We saw what reduced taxes do to joblessness in the early 90's (tech boom) and then we saw what raising taxes does in the late 90's (tech bubble).

The faster the reduction happens the faster it helps the economy...if it is strung out over 10 years it has little effect or no effect if other factors create larger issues.

I might have been able to get a $9/hour job a year ago, if I had to...I couldn't afford to do it because unemployment pays more. I am now looking for something that even pays $12/hour. I am used to making more than twice that...
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun."-Patrick Henry

Offline Ray B.

  • *
  • Posts: 7287
  • Country: fr
  • Puzzle Points 546
  • Pasta la vista
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • La philosophie dans la piscine
Re: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2010, 05:00:38 PM »
There's been such an increase of this kind of topics recently that I have to ask:
 
Would you guys be kind enough to create a special board, let's say "American Libertarians and Climate Sceptics Only", visible only by yourselves. Otherwise, the ordinary autopuzzler, when he clicks on "unread post since last visit" has to search for his beloved puzzles among all this stuff, and feels he's invited to attend a Tea Party he never asked for.
I mean, Charlie, that has the owner of a website, you may feel it's OK to use it for political propaganda or (?) debate, but  what is the relation with Autopuzzles? Why don't you create another site, dedicated to it?

Editors are asked to track and eliminate spamming. What's the use, when it's fully allowed in this section?


He Touched Me With His Noodly Appendage

Offline Allemano

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 18482
  • Country: de
  • Puzzle Points 821
  • almost retired
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2010, 05:11:22 PM »
I must agree. Sometimes I got the feeling standing in the wrong corner of the pub!
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 05:32:02 PM by Allemano »

Offline GRAYWOLF

  • Future Media Mogul
  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 1640
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 19
  • High School
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • My Blog
Re: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2010, 09:17:13 PM »
This is a special section, "General Discussion".
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun."-Patrick Henry

Offline Ultra

  • Founder, Publisher Emeritus &
  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 7506
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 20
  • More than you bargained for
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • AutoPuzzles
Re: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2010, 09:28:59 PM »
This is a special section, "General Discussion".

'xactly.

No one is forced to read any threads here at AP.  Ever.  If you don't wish to read certain threads, that is okay.  No one will hold it against you.

That's all I have to say about that.   That is all there is to say about that.

Next.   :bonk:
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 12:37:45 AM by Ultra »
“Honi soit qui mal y pense”


Click the pic....... Name the car

Offline Ray B.

  • *
  • Posts: 7287
  • Country: fr
  • Puzzle Points 546
  • Pasta la vista
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • La philosophie dans la piscine
Re: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2010, 05:50:00 AM »
This is a special section, "General Discussion".

I know that. But I suggested that this section should be left out of what one get whens he clicks on "Show unread topics since last visit". When I clicked it this morning it took one third of the board.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 05:56:41 AM by Ray B. »
He Touched Me With His Noodly Appendage

Offline Ultra

  • Founder, Publisher Emeritus &
  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 7506
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 20
  • More than you bargained for
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • AutoPuzzles
Re: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2010, 07:02:41 AM »
This is a special section, "General Discussion".
I know that. But I suggested that this section should be left out of what one get whens he clicks on "Show unread topics since last visit". When I clicked it this morning it took one third of the board.

Your "suggestion" cannot be done.

Adapt with a smile. Please.
“Honi soit qui mal y pense”


Click the pic....... Name the car

Offline Ray B.

  • *
  • Posts: 7287
  • Country: fr
  • Puzzle Points 546
  • Pasta la vista
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • La philosophie dans la piscine
Re: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2010, 07:12:05 AM »
 :) I'd be glad too. Why don't everybody adapt?  :)
He Touched Me With His Noodly Appendage

Offline Ultra

  • Founder, Publisher Emeritus &
  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 7506
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 20
  • More than you bargained for
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • AutoPuzzles
Re: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2010, 07:24:24 AM »
:) I'd be glad too. Why don't everybody adapt?  :)


Everybody is adapting.  Only a few feel the need to point it out.   ;)  PM's for any further discussion about this.

Back to the topic.......

Government cannot create jobs.  Only producers can create jobs.
“Honi soit qui mal y pense”


Click the pic....... Name the car

Offline MG

  • Free Radical
  • *
  • Posts: 1794
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 12
  • Designated Driver
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2010, 07:44:25 AM »
Ahhhhh.....so, Ultradamus, please tell us what business government has in manipulating the national economy. Everyone here knows about THAT!   :o
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the number of moments that take your breath away!

Offline Ultra

  • Founder, Publisher Emeritus &
  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 7506
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 20
  • More than you bargained for
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • AutoPuzzles
Re: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2010, 07:46:53 AM »
Ahhhhh.....so, Ultradamus, please tell us what business government has in manipulating the national economy. Everyone here knows about THAT!   :o

They have no business doing so.
“Honi soit qui mal y pense”


Click the pic....... Name the car

Offline mpatrizio

  • *
  • Posts: 69
  • Country: qa
  • Puzzle Points 0
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2010, 01:18:06 AM »
Just to add.....   Corporate tax breaks don't create jobs either....  Raising taxes has the opposite effect and actually eliminates jobs....

Want to create jobs....   Find a way to create more customers, which is easier said than done.

I know my post is elementary, but to me it's a basic as it gets.  (Especially with smaller businesses.)


Offline Bezor

  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 535
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 2
  • A Hairball?
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2010, 12:10:07 AM »
I know how to solve this!

Start a war.


Then turn your back to a few bankers and mortgage lenders who have "gamed" the free market (it's never been a free market, but that's the gamers argument).

Get people to believe that their lifestyle is perpetually sustained through easy bank lending and get them on a recirculating debt cycle that never ends. 

Once those three legs of the stool are in place, just sit back and watch the economy take off. 

That's my idea.  I'll take "donations" to support my cause from any lobby willing to give me money to represent them.

Offline Ultra

  • Founder, Publisher Emeritus &
  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 7506
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 20
  • More than you bargained for
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • AutoPuzzles
Re: Senate Dems ax bipartisan jobs bill
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2010, 09:19:48 AM »
I know how to solve this!

Start a war.

Now you are starting to think like our "leaders."
“Honi soit qui mal y pense”


Click the pic....... Name the car