Topic: Global Warming?

[Ultra]

Today's high temp.

7^o

Temp now: 0^o

The hysteria on this topic is designed to further empower socialist institutions. 

[otto]

Ahhhhhh 0 thats like cold man what gives???

otto

[Ultra]

Ahhhhhh 0 thats like cold man what gives???

otto

-2^o now.   

The wind chills are not pleasant at around -30^o, FWIW.

Arthur, you can keep Calgary, I'll pass.

[GRAYWOLF]

Wow, just imagine how cold it would be if we didn't have global warming!!!

[MG]

While I respect everyone's opinion and recognize that there is a lot of scarifying going on on all sides of this issue, it DOES seem fairly clear that significant changes are occuring and while Boise may not become an ocean front community any time soon, some of the poorest countries on earth are likely to become a whole lot poorer as the seas overspread their borders and the paltry rainfall they barely subsist on at present becomes less and less, driving billions of people into a state of perpetual hunger and starvation.

If nothing else, the politics of all those starving masses will present some monumental challenges to those countries where the most crucial life decisions revolve around choosing between an mp3 player and an iPod.

On the other hand, I'll be dead so I really don't give a flying canole!   

[Rich]

Actually, FWIU, the more severe and unpredictable cold and hot spells we've been experiencing are both indicative of global warming...

I, for one, believe it is happening, merely from the common sense observation of how the expulsion of greenhouse gases, ranging in sources from cattle to Chevys to industrial applications, has exponentially increased over the past two centuries.  I cannot understand anyone who denies that such emissions must be having an effect somehow on Spaceship Earth...

[MG]

Rich, you are SUCH an alarmist!      Don't you know that God is on our side and we can do any ol' thing we want to this here planet and nothing will ever have any negative impact on it because God loves us and He wouldn't let anything bad happen to us, now would he?   

Well, assuming you put aside war, pestilence, and mindless cruelty to others......

[GRAYWOLF]

These guys can't predict what is going to happen tomorrow, what makes them think they can predict what is going to happen in 100 years?

We already know that Greenland has been warmer (less ice coverage) than it is now.

The US records only show a .3 degree increase, which can easily be explained by urbanization getting closer to measuring points. Rural temps could have dropped but the testing locations will show an increase.

We still can not say it is or isn't happening, let alone attribute it to anything other than natural cycle.

[Rich]

So, the spewing of literal tons of greenhouse gases that have only come from exponential human expansion, industrialization, and emissions in the past two centuries might not be having an effect on our atmosphere?  Please.

[GRAYWOLF]

Of course it has an effect on our atmosphere...it makes for pretty sunsets!

[Ultra]

So, the spewing of literal tons of greenhouse gases that have only come from exponential human expansion, industrialization, and emissions in the past two centuries might not be having an effect on our atmosphere?  Please.

Greenhouse gasses = CO₂

CO₂ gas is what is released by plants.  The Brazilian rainforest is being destroyed.  It is the largest single CO₂  engine on the planet.   The "increase" in greenhouse gasses that you refer to is being compared to what era in history?  How do you know the percentage of greenhouse gasses from that era? 

Perhaps the earth is going through a warming cycle.  Still and all, our weather cycles indicate that areas like Greenland have been much warmer than now at times in the earths history.  That is how it got the name Greenland from the vikings.  Greenlighting government to attempt to influence weather due to the earth going through a warming cycle sounds like a recipe for unlimited government to me.      I'll pass.

[Rich]

Wrong.  Plants produce O2...they consume CO2; thus the concern of the reduction of our rain forests.

[GRAYWOLF]

We release CO₂, plants convert CO₂ to O₂

[Ultra]

Wrong.  Plants produce O2...they consume CO2; thus the concern of the reduction of our rain forests.

You are correct, I got it backwards.  Mea culpa.

The largest number of humans ever are producing the CO₂, not the rainforest.  Perhaps overpopulation is the problem.  This could lead to government controlling reproductive rights.   And the cycle of uninterrupted growth of government power shall continue unabated.   

Cows produce more greenhouse gas emissions than cars, also.

[MG]

How do you know the percentage of greenhouse gasses from that era? 

Core samples from artic and antartic ice contain trapped samples of the earth's atmosphere, which can provide this information.

As for bovine emissions, I am presently awaiting a patent on a new product I have invented, the cow flatulence collection system. This product will capture these troublesome gasses. My trucks will collect the "samples" daily from farms and transport them to my main facility here in Chepachet, where the gas will be compressed and distributed in liquid form to service stations across North America. I am also marketing a kit to allow your HEMI to run on compressed cow emissions, although following along behind one will definitily NOT remind you of French fries!   

I expect to become enormously wealthy from this plan. Investors are encouraged to check out this rare opportunity at www.freedomthroughflatulence.org.

Thank you.   

[Rich]

While I share your concern re- the development of the mommystate, U, I cannot determine if it is worse if one is not developed, given the fact that humans have rarely shown their ability to responsibly live without one.......

Overpopulation IS the problem, BTW; people continue to have more people, whether they can afford them or not.  My wife and I stopped at 2; that was the number of children we felt was fiscally, socially, and personally responsible to have.  Few people I know actually "plan" their families...to do otherwise and let "God" do it for you is, well, stupid.

[Ultra]

Overpopulation IS the problem, BTW; people continue to have more people, whether they can afford them or not.  My wife and I stopped at 2; that was the number of children we felt was fiscally, socially, and personally responsible to have.  Few people I know actually "plan" their families...to do otherwise and let "God" do it for you is, well, stupid.

I agree with everything here. 

I cannot determine if it is worse if one is not developed

I can. 

Nothing and I do mean NOTHING is worse for that state of mankind than the mommystate.

[GRAYWOLF]

How do you know the percentage of greenhouse gasses from that era? 

Core samples from artic and antartic ice contain trapped samples of the earth's atmosphere, which can provide this information.

They can only go back about 1500 years...hardly a telling history of a multi-million year old planet...

[Otto Puzzell]

Core samples go back hundreds of thousands of years, and show a 15,000-year (appx) cycle between global cooling and global warming. We are in the midst of what should be another 15,000 warming cycle.
   
I googled "greenhouse gas sources" after reading your post, and came across this interesting article, which draws from a variety of credible sources, as to how much of an impact Homo sapiens has on the climate.

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

[Rich]

...and, in terms of statistical analysis, the data span available re- KU's post is more than enough to extrapolate literal millions of years of trends....

[Ultra]

Core samples go back hundreds of thousands of years, and show a 15,000-year (appx) cycle between global cooling and global warming. We are in the midst of what should be another 15,000 warming cycle.
   
I googled "greenhouse gas sources" after reading your post, and came across this interesting article, which draws from a variety of credible sources, as to how much of an impact Homo sapiens has on the climate.

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

Thank you, Karn.

This was a great link from your recommended page:

http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=010405M

[Ultra]

...and, in terms of statistical analysis, the data span available re- KU's post is more than enough to extrapolate literal millions of years of trends....

Correct.  And if one accepts the conclusions drawn from the data and trends provided by the links given via Karn's site, one is also able to effectively conclude that CO₂ has a negligible effect of global climate.   

Rich, who drives the continual "Global Warming" blather of today?   Look into it a little.  Follow the money.

[GRAYWOLF]

I guess they found another place to core that is deeper.

Several years ago the was some show on PBS that was explaining how the coring worked and they could only go back 1500 years from those cores. They showed that we are in the third progressive spike in temp. They tried to prove that this one is beyond the natural increase by using the first 2 to plot  straight line on a graph. People that don't understand math would look at it and say it is proof. Apply the slightest amount of critical thinking and you realize that 2 points only give you a straight line, but 3 will give you a wave. Had they plotted it as a wave, they might have actually proven something, but they didn't try that (at least not on the show). My guess is that it would have blown their "hysteria for profit" motive.

[MG]

Apply the slightest amount of critical thinking

Not everyone in the world can meet your high standards!   

[Rich]

...and, in terms of statistical analysis, the data span available re- KU's post is more than enough to extrapolate literal millions of years of trends....

Correct.  And if one accepts the conclusions drawn from the data and trends provided by the links given via Karn's site, one is also able to effectively conclude that CO₂ has a negligible effect of global climate.   

Rich, who drives the continual "Global Warming" blather of today?   Look into it a little.  Follow the money.

...and who drives the non-global warming blather?  No money there....just good-heartedness.....