Fiat Topolino fuoriserei wanted!

[Iluvatar]

From the book "La Fiat va alla Mille Miglia" two Fiat 750 Sport of Fenocchio-Fenocchio at Mille Miglia 1949 and 1954.
MPC

[als15]

Good source. I'll go through all that book.

[Iluvatar]

Fiat 500 Sperandeo 1947 found on Automobilismo d'Epoca.
I'll send you the article (with the one about the Motto 500).
MPC

[thorax]

and this one?

[Paul Jaray]

http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 

[thorax]

ok 

[Paul Jaray]

If I remember correctly, there was a french car using a Topolino engine...it had the unusual diamond wheels pattern...
Can't recall its name...

[Wendax]

It is the Alamagny with a Simca 5 engine.

http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=4293.0

[Iluvatar]

...it had the unusual diamond wheels pattern...

Like the "Romboidale" in Italy...
MPC

[Otto Puzzell]

.

[75america]

Not much information available:

[Iluvatar]

Not much information available:

Home built??
MPC

[als15]

Home built??

I think so: something made in the early 50s. The rear hood comes from a 1949 Fiat 1100 E.

[75america]

2 interesting stories both which need a little more investigation:

Fiat 500 Topolino 'English' 4-seater:

Early in 1939, a four-seater Topolino was introduced called the 'Convertible Four'.

Produced in England, by an English company, solely for the English market, it was priced at £133.10s (£133 pounds and 50 pence).  Using the same 569cc side-valve engine as the production FIAT 500, it was RAC rated at 6.7hp and the annual road tax was £5.5s (5 pounds and 25 pence).

Information regarding the Convertible Four is very scarce although it must be available somewhere.

The standard FIAT 500 Topolino was well accepted in England.  But the true English motorist of pre-WWII days was a family man that enjoyed the pleasures of the countryside and regularly took his family out to find a nice little spot for a picnic.  Therefore, the four seater car was considered a 'must' and as other small cars such as the Austin 7 and the Morris Minor were popular, someone decided that a small four seater with a streamlined body would stand a very good chance of success.  It was reputed to have been converted from the FIAT 500 van by Messrs C. R. Abbott of London and certainly it bears a very strong resemblance to the van.  But the body line from the waist down suggests that it could just as easily have been based on the normal 500 two door, two-seater saloon.

Engine, chassis, running gear and instrumentation was identical to the standard car, with the exception of the final drive ratio which was increased from 4.87:1 to 5.i:1 to compensate for the additional 1 cwt of the larger body.

There was ample room for four adults of normal stature and room for limited luggage behind the back seat.  As with the production 500 saloons, there is no boot lid and all luggage had to be loaded through the two doors into space made available by pulling the back seat squab down.

A road test of the Convertible Four was carried out by staff of 'The Motor' magazine in April 1939 who were quite obviously very impressed by the performance of the test car with four adults on board. The notorious 'Porlock' hill was negotiated in first gear without any trouble at all. Reference was made regarding the 'excellent brakes' and the 'finger-tip' steering.

It is thought that all Convertible Four's were produced with two-tone colour schemes - even that these were metallic colours - but the lack of records make it impossible to substantiate this.  It isn't even possible to hazard a guess at how many Convertible Four's were built, but only a handful remain in this country and on the Continent and very few are usable at this time.  What is known is that they command a much higher price today than the equivalent FIAT 500 convertible or fixed head saloons.

Specification:
Engine:  Front mounted, four vertical cylinders, in-line, side-valve, water-cooled of 569cc giving 13 bhp at 4,000rpm.
Lubrication: Gear pump with suction filters submerged in the sump.
Fuel Consumption: 6.7 litres per 100km (42 mpg)  Fuel gravity fed from a 21 litre (4.5 gallon) tank located under ths scuttle
Gears: Four forward gears plus reverse with synchromesh on 3rd and 4th gears.
Maximum Speed: 84kph (52.3 mph)
Brakes: Foot operated, hydraulic drum brakes to all road wheels plus hand operated transmission brake.
Electrical Equipment: 12 volts with coil and distributor.
Suspension: Front: Independent by transverse spring and wishbones.
Rear: Semi-elliptic springs.
Hydraulic shock absorbers to all road wheels.

Dimensions:
Length: 3,290mm (10' 9 1/2")
Width: 1,275mm (4' 2 1/8")
Height: 1,410mm (4' 7 1/2")

1938 Fiat Topolino Siata Smith Special
The Smith special was converted at Sydney Smith garages Ltd of Purley way, Purley Surrey. They were marketed in 1938 and sold for £153.10s
Apparently +/- 20 were built.

[als15]

Thanks for information.
About the Sidney Smith I've found some period literature.
The other one is still not so clear to me.
I've found some reference showing it as a regular Fiat model (I mean, sold by Fiat dealers), but it was also quite obvious it wasn't manufactured in Turin, or at least not directly on the Lingotto assembly line.
In your oprinion, was Fiat somehow involved or was it just a personal initiative of Abbott?
And have you any period picture? Perhaps from "The Motor"?

Thanks again,

Alessandro.

P.S. I think I should speed-up with 124 and 125, because Topolino is getting more and more interesting... 

[75america]

The other one is still not so clear to me.
I've found some reference showing it as a regular Fiat model (I mean, sold by Fiat dealers), but it was also quite obvious it wasn't manufactured in Turin, or at least not directly on the Lingotto assembly line.
In your oprinion, was Fiat somehow involved or was it just a personal initiative of Abbott?
And have you any period picture? Perhaps from "The Motor"?

The story behind this car is unclear to me as well (and apparently also to most others, including owners of these cars)  but we have some real experts on this forum, so perhaps there is somebody who is specialized in British cars who knows more (and owns perhaps also 'The Motor' issue of April 1939 or other period pics).
It seems that approx 400 of the 'convertible four' were made.  So, to sell this amount of cars, I think some kind of support from Fiat (UK?) must indeed have been existed (only making use of the Fiat sales network?).
Also, company Messrs C. R. Abbott of London is a mystery for me.  We all know Abbott, but that's E.D. Abbott Ltd from Farnham, Surrey.  I checked both the 'Beaulieu encyclopedia of the Automobile Coachbuilding' and 'A-Z of Britisch coachbuilders 1919-1960' but not a word about Messrs C. R. Abbott of London.

Its also certainly worth to take a look on the S.I.A.T.A. volume by A. Fornai (even if we know there are a lot of errors in his books).  There are approx. 20 pages present about Topolino related cars (and I have the impression that not all of them are covered in 'La Sport' and the 1st edition of Topolino Fuoriserie).

[75america]

It seems that the Dutch were 64 years earlier with the idea than the guys from Top Gear:

Fiat 500 "Topolino", converted to a railway inspection car. Nederlandse Spoorwegen (Dutch railway company) Centraal Station, Amsterdam, november 4, 1947. Picture: Ben van Meerendonk / AHF, collectie IISG, Amsterdam

[75america]

Cabriolet version of the Simca 5, made by 'La Découvrable', 29, Avenue de Châtillon in Paris, as presented on the Salon de Paris in 1938:

[75america]

More Topolino's + other views from already covered Topolino's

[als15]

#2 should be a Polski-Fiat while #3, AFAIK, is a modern coonversion. Am I right?

[75america]

#2 should be a Polski-Fiat while #3, AFAIK, is a modern coonversion. Am I right?

I have no idea.

About the Spiaggia, only info I can add is this Czech text about the picture:

[75america]

In a small auto body shop in Parma Mendes Piazza produces little pick-up modifying the mythical Fiat "Topolino"

[Iluvatar]

In a small auto body shop in Parma Mendes Piazza produces little pick-up modifying the mythical Fiat "Topolino"

A "Carrozzeria Piazza Mendes" still exist in Parma (via Pasubio)!!
MPC

[75america]

#2 should be a Polski-Fiat while #3, AFAIK, is a modern coonversion. Am I right?

I have no idea.

About the Spiaggia, only info I can add is this Czech text about the picture:

More news about the Spiaggia!

[als15]

Unfortunately this text doesn't add any info. The name, as far as I understand, is of the current owner. And I'm even more convinced it is modern (respect to 1954), at least because it uses 1965 Fiat 850 Coupè taillights.