Topic: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!

[75america]

...and about your list, I think there were more models by the biggest coachuilders...for example, I think Pininfarina made 4 1900, 3 2000 and 3 2600, Touring made 1 Coupe and 2 spiders with the 2000 ('58) and a 2600 Spider ('60), etc. I'm sure they are all well known and you already know but I don't see them all in the list or they are under a different model. I think there should be a way to id the right model (with the year or some styling features) to help us in the process...  

I fully agree with you PJ, this current list is absolutely not detailed enough:

As a reply on your examples, I have the following listed:

1900

PININ FARINA coupé TI (1900L) => 4 or 5 cars were built, but with at least 3 different front grills, so for me => different cars
PININ FARINA coupé => I split this one up in 3 different versions, and then there is also the 1 off that was made for Farouk, the king of Egypt
PININ FARINA cabriolet => there were 2 series of cars that had visual differences

2000/2600

PININFARINA Sestriere I-II-III => there were indeed 3 different versions of this Alfa Romeo 2000 based car (but it is one and the same car)
PININFARINA 2600 621-coupé speciale => yes, 3 versions as already mentioned in one of my previous posts.

2000/2600
TOURING Praho => there is indeed the one off 2000 Praho
TOURING spider => for the 2000 spider, there is the European version, the European version 2+2, the USA version prototype, and the American version called Roadster + a wooden/clay model from 1957.  Plus there is the 2600 spider and a 2600 Spider with a modified front.

[75america]

FNM 2150 1968

Apparently there was also a break FNM 2150 Familiare (1971), but I doubt if this pic is a photoshop.

I'd say photoshop...

I think so as well, but I'm still convinced there was a station wagon (unfortunately I have no pictures of the real car):

[Paul Jaray]

Wasn't there a 1900 Coupe by Ellena in 1954?

As far as I know, no, but they were involved in the production of the Alfa Romeo 1900 primavera by Boano.
Although I also never found out exactly who did what on the project. (Ellena and Boano were closely related to each other)

I had just a preliminary look at my index, where I read that, according to different sources, Ellena was involved in a 1900 Coupe. Reading those lines, now I see you are right, it was for Alfa Romeo and not a project on their own.

[Iluvatar]

Wasn't there a 1900 Coupe by Ellena in 1954?

As far as I know, no, but they were involved in the production of the Alfa Romeo 1900 primavera by Boano.
Although I also never found out exactly who did what on the project. (Ellena and Boano were closely related to each other)

I don't know any 1954 Ellena 1900... and as far as I know Ellena start the production of bodyworks with its badge only in 1957... but the production of the last 1900 Primavera by Ellena is an unsolved mistery...

[Iluvatar]

Sorry again for the rough list...  I tried to fixed it... maybe now something is more clear...

1 off that was made for Farouk, the king of Egypt

Is it the coupé similar to Boano Primavera??

TOURING spider => a wooden/clay model from 1957.

TOURING spider => a 2600 Spider with a modified front.

The Segale or another one?

[75america]

Sorry again for the rough list...  I tried to fixed it... maybe now something is more clear...

1 off that was made for Farouk, the king of Egypt

Is it the coupé similar to Boano Primavera??

TOURING spider => a wooden/clay model from 1957.

TOURING spider => a 2600 Spider with a modified front.

The Segale or another one?

- There is in my opinion not a single Pininfarina Alfa that looks like the Primavera. The Berlinetta of Farouk:
- The 1957 2000 Touring clay model:
- It's another one with the modified front:

[als15]

Sorry to jump in this discussion so late... I was on holiday 

As the publisher of the book, I'd say that I'm not very worried about the commercial success.
It will be something different from the other two for many reasons (price, focus on a single family of models, use of different pictures and... your contribution). I hope it will widen once again our knowledge on such interesting cars.

What comes very clear from your comments is that it needs a very deep research and it worths to be published only if the story of every single model is told deeply and accurately.

But I'm sure our Iluvatar will do it.

[Iluvatar]

- There is in my opinion not a single Pininfarina Alfa that looks like the Primavera. The Berlinetta of Farouk:

Yes, that's the one I was talking about... maybe it's not so similar to a Primavera, but in the picture from the front there was a few resemblance... it was only the way to identify it...
And thanks for the great pics!!!! 

[Iluvatar]

- The 1957 2000 Touring clay model:

Are you sure this is a clay model? It looks more like a normal metal prototype...

[75america]

If necessary, I can take higher quality scans of some of the pics.

No I'm not sure if it has been made from clay.  In the past, I must have found that info somewhere, but I currently don't remember where.

[75america]

ALFA ROMEO Sport Spider (2000 Sportiva of Museo Alfa Romeo) => This is also a Bertone creation
BERTONE Perla (Scaglione) 1955? => this car (grey) was presented on the 1955 Turin motor show.  A couple of months later, the car (now white) was modified (e.g. different wheel arches,...) and received a hardtop
Boano => you forgot to add a coupé
BONESCHI Sprint Alfa Romeo proposal (scale model) => Is it possible you mean the Giulietta proposal (which does not belong here)
BONESCHI Astral 1953-'54 => There do exist 2 versions, although I think it is one and the same car that was modified
COLLI ministeriale 1955 => I have identified so far 3 different versions
CONRERO => prepared also 1900 berlina cars
GHIA Supergioiello (Michelotti) 1900L/1900C '53 => are you sure Michelotti designed a Supergioiello?  There does also exist the Gioiello. There are some differences between the different made Gioiello cars (single head lights/double headlights,…)
GHIA coupé (Savonuzzi) 1900L/1900C => there do exist several versions of this car but all of them with the same basic design theme
GHIA-AIGLE => your descriptions are a bid vague for me, but there were at least +/- 15 different Ghia-Aigle Alfa Romeo 1900 cars, split up in 4 design themes and each time in coupé and cabrio version (except for the Spider Razza)
IMPERIA => some months ago, I started some research on these Belgian built Alfa Romeo’s.  Currently, my investigation is on hold but I will restart it in a couple of months.  It’s hard to get reliable information on the subject.  I currently don’t believe that Imperia made (6) Touring coupés; but I believe they imported 6 of them into Belgium (but no proof yet).
TOURING Visconteo=> there does exist a coupé and cabriolet of this Tipo 55
TOURING Sprint sI-sII => there is also the “Fangio” car (chassis number 1306*00025), the Alleggerita (3 ? cars made) and the ‘Gara’
TOURING Super Sprint => there is also an SI (1954-1955) and SII (1956-1958) which has complete different bodywork + There is the one with the Marelli removable roof
ZAGATO SSZ => there does exist a coupé and cabriolet version.  And as always with Zagato, probably not 2 cars lof the series looks identical.
WORBLAUFEN (CH) cabriolet (similar to series 1900) => there do exist at least 2 versions of this car

[Iluvatar]

ALFA ROMEO Sport Spider (2000 Sportiva of Museo Alfa Romeo) => This is also a Bertone creation I found different informations about that from different sources... are you sure?
Boano => you forgot to add a coupé I merge it with 01846, cause they are indeed similar... another problem of my rough list...
BONESCHI Sprint Alfa Romeo proposal (scale model) => Is it possible you mean the Giulietta proposal (which does not belong here) If the model we are talking about is the same (picture below) I have it as a 1900 proposal, and if you look to the shape of the front with the large side grilles it looks so similar to the Gazzella... I see on AlfaBB the same model claimed to be a Giulietta prototype, but I'm not convinced at all of this version...
GHIA Supergioiello (Michelotti) 1900L/1900C '53 => are you sure Michelotti designed a Supergioiello?  There does also exist the Gioiello. There are some differences between the different made Gioiello cars (single head lights/double headlights,…) Maybe not by Michelotti (I have to check) but indeed the name is Supergioiello and not Gioiello
GHIA-AIGLE => your descriptions are a bid vague for me, but there were at least +/- 15 different Ghia-Aigle Alfa Romeo 1900 cars, split up in 4 design themes and each time in coupé and cabrio version (except for the Spider Razza) see the next post
IMPERIA => some months ago, I started some research on these Belgian built Alfa Romeo’s.  Currently, my investigation is on hold but I will restart it in a couple of months.  It’s hard to get reliable information on the subject.  I currently don’t believe that Imperia made (6) Touring coupés; but I believe they imported 6 of them into Belgium (but no proof yet). Another misterious topic...
TOURING Sprint sI-sII => there is also the “Fangio” car (chassis number 1306*00025), the Alleggerita (3 ? cars made) and the ‘Gara’  I know the Fangio car... but why is it different from the others?
ZAGATO SSZ => there does exist a coupé and cabriolet version.  And as always with Zagato, probably not 2 cars lof the series looks identical. 
The other info are already in my files...

[Iluvatar]

These are the five main Ghia-Aigle design versions I have (some of them with more variations...)
Maybe 3 and 5 can be considered two version of the same series...

[75america]

ALFA ROMEO Sport Spider (2000 Sportiva of Museo Alfa Romeo) => This is also a Bertone creation I found different informations about that from different sources... are you sure? Almost, yes, It is a Scaglione design and sevaral sources mention it is from Carrozzeria Bertone.
Boano => you forgot to add a coupé I merge it with 01846, cause they are indeed similar... another problem of my rough list...
BONESCHI Sprint Alfa Romeo proposal (scale model) => Is it possible you mean the Giulietta proposal (which does not belong here) If the model we are talking about is the same (picture below) I have it as a 1900 proposal, and if you look to the shape of the front with the large side grilles it looks so similar to the Gazzella... I see on AlfaBB the same model claimed to be a Giulietta prototype, but I'm not convinced at all of this version...  Yes, it's the same model. My source (and probably also the one from Alfa BB is the Book 'Alfa Romeo Giulietta' by Anselmi, and although you can never be 100% of these sources, Anselmi is in my opinion pretty reliable.  Photo caption says: "Few people knew that Carrozzeria Boneschi of Milan participated in the tender-competition for the model definition and construction on the Giulietta Sprint sports coupé.  The scale model that appears in the photographs represents Boneschi's proposal: given its constructual complexity and transcience of taste inspired by the rear end of the model, it is little wonder that it lost out to the Turin proposals.
GHIA Supergioiello (Michelotti) 1900L/1900C '53 => are you sure Michelotti designed a Supergioiello?  There does also exist the Gioiello. There are some differences between the different made Gioiello cars (single head lights/double headlights,…) Maybe not by Michelotti (I have to check) but indeed the name is Supergioiello and not Gioiello  There is the Gioiello AND the Supergioiello.
GHIA-AIGLE => your descriptions are a bid vague for me, but there were at least +/- 15 different Ghia-Aigle Alfa Romeo 1900 cars, split up in 4 design themes and each time in coupé and cabrio version (except for the Spider Razza) see the next post  (I count indeed car 3 and 5 as 1 design theme)
IMPERIA => some months ago, I started some research on these Belgian built Alfa Romeo’s.  Currently, my investigation is on hold but I will restart it in a couple of months.  It’s hard to get reliable information on the subject.  I currently don’t believe that Imperia made (6) Touring coupés; but I believe they imported 6 of them into Belgium (but no proof yet). Another misterious topic...
TOURING Sprint sI-sII => there is also the “Fangio” car (chassis number 1306*00025), the Alleggerita (3 ? cars made) and the ‘Gara’  I know the Fangio car... but why is it different from the others? Compared to the production model it had amongst others: a front side windows in 2 parts, different bumpers, other tail lights and it was painted in a special 'nocciola' methalic paint.
ZAGATO SSZ => there does exist a coupé and cabriolet version.  And as always with Zagato, probably not 2 cars lof the series looks identical.  
The other info are already in my files...

An addition:

[Iluvatar]

I posted a new (and better, I hope...) list in the second post.
Thanks for your contribution! 

[75america]

Some more Michelotti sketches:

[75america]

From ‘La “Sport” e i suoi artigiani:

Alfa Romeo (derivata) p 74(+pic)-75:
… Anche Gennaro Calce e Matteo Barberisi nella loro officina di via Pavia a Napoli realizzarono per Giuseppe Ruggiero, noto agli sportivi partenopei con il simpatico soprannome di “Beppe ‘a frizione” per la sua abitudine di tenere sempre il piedi sinistro appoggiato sul pedale.  La vettura era la vecchia Masertai A6GCS monofaro di Ruggiero cui Calce e Barberisi sostituirono nel 1954 il motore non più riparabile con quello di un’Alfa 1900 AR51 Matta opportunamente elaborato.  La macchina esordì l’8 agosto 1954 al circuito Città di Reggio Calabria, segnando l’ultimo tempo in prova e classificandosi settima e ultima a cinque giri dalla Ferrari 3000 del vincitore Luigi Piotti.  La vettura riapparve in gara alla Agnano-Cappella dei Cangiani del 1955, valida per il Campionato sociale dell’ACI Napoli, dove giunse seconda assoluta.  Nel 1956 Ruggiero ottenne tre terzi posti di classe alla X Targa Vesuvio, alle IX Coppa Selva di Fasano e alla XI Catania-Etna e l’anno successivo vinse l’assoluto ancora all’Agnano-Cappella dei Cangiani, ben comportandosi al XIV Gran Premio Napoli (III di classe).  Ultima apparizione degna di nota della vettura fu al XVI Gran Premio Posillipo del 1959, dove Ruggiero si classificò quattro di classe…


Dagrada p134
…Il rientro nel 1955 avvenne con la preparazione di Vetture Alfa Romeo 1900 e Giulietta nella nuova officina di via Salaino, sempre a Milano…


Zanussi p 324:
…Ultima fatica del Nostro fu una barchetta a motore Alfa Romeo 1900, costruita per un patrizio di Treviso, vettura che tuttavia, non sembra aver mai corso.  Pare che il motore fosse stato trasformato con uno spinterogeno in grado di generale due scintille in rapida successione al fine di migliorare la combustione, secondo un sistema che aveva reso celebre Pagani, e che poi fu adottato anche sulle Abarth 850 TC e 1000 Berlina…

[75america]

From the recently published book ‘Sartorelli Engineer & designer:

[Iluvatar]

Thanks!!!!!!!

[Iluvatar]

From the recently published book ‘Sartorelli Engineer & designer:

It's quite clear that the Sartorelli drawings of the 2000 Spider developed into the 2600 Spider Ghia owned by Lopresto, with a simpler design but with the same styling cues... it could confirm the Sartorelli hand behind the car (I discussed that with Lopresto and he didn't know the designer...)

[Iluvatar]

The Ghia 2600 Spider is chassis 10601.191002, while chassis 003 is a Touring spider with the body of the 2000 Spider but the 2600 engine.
Both owned by Lopresto.

[75america]

All I know is that the picture was taken in 1990 in Vevey (Montreux).

[75america]

Michelotti drawing for an Alfa Romeo 1900 based hearse for Carrozzeria Accossato:

[Iluvatar]

Michelotti drawing for an Alfa Romeo 1900 based hearse for Carrozzeria Accossato:

Great! Thanks!!! 
Do you know if this one was built?

[75america]

Do you know if this one was built?

No I don't.  But because this drawing tends already more towards a technical drawing than a sketch, I would not be surprised if the project got beyond the drawing board.