Author Topic: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!  (Read 12997 times)

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Offline Iluvatar

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Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« on: May 02, 2013, 07:23:25 AM »
Hello everybody,

following the great idea of the "Fiat fuoriserie" books written by als15, I'm now working, with his contribution and help, on a book about Alfa Romeo 1900, 2000 and 2600 fuoriserie.
The book will be published by Edizioni il Cammello, and after having created a list of all the cars I have found I ask you for a little help... if you have more special, strange, home-made,
unknown (or even proposed and never-built) cars based on Alfa 1900, 2000 or 2600 (and FNM, IKA, Imperia...) let me know!
As for the similar threads by als15... 3 copies available for the best contributions!

Thanks for the help!
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Offline Iluvatar

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2013, 07:24:21 AM »
This is the list...

(in italic the new cars found with this thread)

New list... I hope it's better now...
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 09:08:29 AM by Iluvatar »
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Offline Iluvatar

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2013, 07:28:09 AM »
I have already found the first contribution in the Solved Puzzles...  ;D
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=24395.0
Alfa Romeo 2600 by Marco Zanuso (designed 1963-65)


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Offline 75america

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2013, 11:11:15 AM »
I was working on a similar project (fuoriserie Alfa Romeo's are my speciality) until 'Curiosalfa' by Stefano Salvetti came out in 2010.
That book covers most of the things I had in mind (only a few cars lacking + I would have added some more technical information) and was printed in a much higher quality than I could have afforded),
So my project became pointless, and I stopped working on it.
On top of that, last year H.-Jürgen Döhren published his book 'Millenove' which also covers all 1900 Fuoriserie cars.

So I do not know if an additional book on the subject will add a lot of value.  (And so, I'm also not sure you will be able to sell a lot of copies)
Nevertheless, I am in any case always in for an additional book about fuoriserie cars, so you can count on my contribution and help.
In the coming days, I'll check out the files I was working on before the Curiosalfa book came out and I'll post the cars that are not mentioned yet in your list. 

A first teaser:

1954 1900 Castagna coupé:


Offline Iluvatar

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2013, 11:56:35 AM »
Yes, Curiosalfa and Millenove are on similar subject, and maybe there will be a little competition with this book, but we (Alessandro and me) think that this book should be more complete, and the two other books are far from the completeness of the books I have in mind (and I hope to reach this goal...), in addition to being very expensive (the Fiat fuoriserie books are around 15-30€, Curiosalfa if I remeber right is 60€ and Millenove is not in italian and I saw it for sale at 105€...).
That's way we decided to start the project anyway...  ;)
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Offline 75america

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2013, 02:49:57 AM »
Curiosalfa was indeeed 60 € but it also contains much more than just the 1900 and 2600.  So in my opinion, it's worth every penny.
Millenove is in my opinion heavily overpriced (but I 'only' paid 79 € for it (and mine is equipped with the slipcase)).

I have the impression that your list has not yet been crosschecked with Curiosalfa and Millenove.
If so, will you do that yourself?

I also want to point to the book "alfavelate", written by the Alfa blue team founder Gippo Salvetti (and father of the author of the Curiosalfa book)
It contains the AR52 "Matta-raid" and a completely different looking 2600 sedan prototype.

And of course, sometimes cars first appear on Autopuzzles before they show up in a book:
1954 Raymond Hyvert Alfa Romeo Special => http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=21527.0

« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 03:29:23 AM by Iluvatar »

Offline Iluvatar

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2013, 03:28:39 AM »
Curiosalfa was indeeed 60 € but it also contains much more than just the 1900 and 2600.  So in my opinion, it's worth every penny.
Millenove is in my opinion heavily overpriced (but I 'only' paid 79 € for it (and mine is equipped with the slipcase)).
Yes, you are indeed right... Curiosalfa is the most similar book... so I ask you... what do you think I should do to create a book quite different from Curiosalfa?
What I thught is that I will use, when possible, only period pics... and I will enlarge the range of special cars with some very uncommon cars, like the FNM Cutia or the Emery Cooper T23-Alfa Romeo... and focusing only on three models it will be a more specific book... other suggestion?

I have the impression that your list has not yet been crosschecked with Curiosalfa and Millenove.
If so, will you do that yourself?
Curiosalfa - yes, done!
Millenove - not yet, but I will do it soon...

I also want to point to the book "alfavelate", written by the Alfa blue team founder Gippo Salvetti (and father of the author of the Curiosalfa book)
It contains the AR52 "Matta-raid" and a completely different looking 2600 sedan prototype.
Yes, I know that book... In my list I have not added the Matta fuoriserie and the Alfa Romeo internal prototypes... but they are somewhere on my PC... ;)

Thanks for your opinion and suggestion!!  :)



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Offline Iluvatar

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2013, 04:15:30 AM »
List updated...
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Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2013, 07:01:32 AM »
WOW!
I'll start looking for specials!
How I love new books!

(1st of all, wasn't there an Excalibur J with an Alfa Engine?)

Offline Iluvatar

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2013, 11:34:29 AM »
(1st of all, wasn't there an Excalibur J with an Alfa Engine?)
Great! I never heard about this one...
Added!
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Offline João

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2013, 12:07:47 PM »
Nice! You can count on me.

This one is missing : Pick-up FNM 2150 from 1972. Production - 3/7 cars.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 12:10:25 PM by João »

Offline 75america

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2013, 02:32:40 PM »
Curiosalfa was indeeed 60 € but it also contains much more than just the 1900 and 2600.  So in my opinion, it's worth every penny.
Millenove is in my opinion heavily overpriced (but I 'only' paid 79 € for it (and mine is equipped with the slipcase)).
Yes, you are indeed right... Curiosalfa is the most similar book... so I ask you... what do you think I should do to create a book quite different from Curiosalfa?
What I thught is that I will use, when possible, only period pics... and I will enlarge the range of special cars with some very uncommon cars, like the FNM Cutia or the Emery Cooper T23-Alfa Romeo... and focusing only on three models it will be a more specific book... other suggestion?

I have the impression that your list has not yet been crosschecked with Curiosalfa and Millenove.
If so, will you do that yourself?
Curiosalfa - yes, done!
Millenove - not yet, but I will do it soon...

I also want to point to the book "alfavelate", written by the Alfa blue team founder Gippo Salvetti (and father of the author of the Curiosalfa book)
It contains the AR52 "Matta-raid" and a completely different looking 2600 sedan prototype.
Yes, I know that book... In my list I have not added the Matta fuoriserie and the Alfa Romeo internal prototypes... but they are somewhere on my PC... ;)

Thanks for your opinion and suggestion!!  :)



My book (set up was an overview of all post war Alfa Romeo’s from the 1900 up to the 1995 Castagna Vittoria and Zender Progetto Cinque: official and fuoriserie, prototypes and derivates like the Bergantin, FNM,…) would also have been much more advanced back in 2010 when Curiosalfa came out if I would have had let go the idea to only (or as much as possible) work with period pics.  For a lot of the cars, it is almost impossible to find period pics (or you must have much better and obscure sources than others) but I kept searching for period pics…while Curiosalfa just used recent pics in cases where they were unable to find period ones.
Döhren had another approach with his Millenove book by using almost always recent pics (not the approach I like).
I also tried to find each time a front, side, rear and interior shot of the car…naïve of me because in most of the cases impossible to find.
I also lost time trying to find answers on questions like ‘Who’s responsible for the 1900 L Torpedo?”  Curiosalfa solved that problem by writing '…the coachbuilder is unknown…' While Millenove’s solution on this question was writing: 'There is no indication as to whether the cabriolet was built by Alfa Romeo itself or possibly by Carrozzeria Colli…'

Currently, I don’t really have suggestions to differentiate it more from Curiosalfa (otherwise I would have continued myself with my project), but if period pics can be found of all cars from all views, and the unanswered questions can be answered, then I still see potential for a successful book… But I now know that achieving both these goals is very hard, if not impossible to achieve.
Depending on how many cars we find that are not mentioned yet in Curiosalfa/Millenove (Apparently a publisher is interested to bring out an Italian/English version of Millenove which will bring down the potential of your book again.) the relevance of this book might increase.

If the cross-reference with Curiosalfa has already been done, then why is a car like the 1900 ‘Bianchi’ by Riva missing in your overview?

Offline 75america

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2013, 02:31:04 AM »
FNM 2000 TIMB:

Offline 75america

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2013, 02:38:57 AM »
GHIA cabriolet 2000

I assume you mean with this one Corrado Lopresto's 1962 2600 Spider?

Offline 75america

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2013, 02:45:54 AM »
VIGNALE coupé

The probably 47 Alfa Romeo 2000 based cars that were built can as far as I know be spitted up in 4 series and 2 sub-series, all based on visual differences.
Type 1, Type 2a, Type 2b, Type 3a, Type 3b and Type 4
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 03:28:16 AM by 75america »

Offline 75america

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2013, 02:51:05 AM »
The fire extinguisher company CEA (Construzione Estintori Anticendio) of Bologna, converted 2 examples of the Alfa Romeo 2600 Sprint in 1963 and 12 examples of the Alfa Romeo 2600 Berlina in 1964 into race track fire intervention vehicles. 

Offline 75america

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2013, 03:00:15 AM »

PININFARINA 2600 621-coupé speciale

This car was firstly presented as a convertible on the 1962 Turin Motor Show.
Then, It was converted into a coupé and was presented on the 1963 Brussels Motor show.
A coupé version with a slightly different front does also exist (but it is probably the same car that was modified again).
This car is currently owned by Roland D'Ieteren.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 03:04:05 AM by 75america »

Offline 75america

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2013, 03:03:24 AM »
BONESCHI 2000 linea tesa 1961
BONESCHI 2600 cabrio 1963

The 2600 was also part of the Linea Tesa series.
It was the 9th vehicle in the Linea Tesa series, therefore, there was written 'Studionove' on the rear flank.

Offline 75america

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2013, 03:11:09 AM »
BERTONE Sole e Luce coupé 1959

The Sole, designed by Franco Scaglione, was presented on the 29th Geneva motor show (12-22/3/1959), got a modified front and was presented again on the 41th Turin motor show (31/10-11/11/1959).  I never managed to find out if Scaglione was also responsible for this facelift.

Was the name of the Luce coupe just 'Luce' or 'Granluce'?

Offline 75america

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2013, 03:16:25 AM »
FNM 2150 1968

Apparently there was also a break FNM 2150 Familiare (1971), but I doubt if this pic is a photoshop.

Offline 75america

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2013, 03:27:40 AM »
ZAGATO proposal built as Rover 2000 TCZ

As far as I know, this car has no relation whatsoever with Alfa Romeo.
Only link is that both 2600 SZ and 2000 TCZ were designed by Spada and both were made by Zagato.

Offline Iluvatar

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2013, 04:22:49 AM »
If the cross-reference with Curiosalfa has already been done, then why is a car like the 1900 ‘Bianchi’ by Riva missing in your overview?
You are right, I lost it because it was not on my PC (I checked Curiosalfa without the PC, and I have a lot of pages of notes)...  ::)
GHIA cabriolet 2000

I assume you mean with this one Corrado Lopresto's 1962 2600 Spider?
Yes...

VIGNALE coupé

The probably 47 Alfa Romeo 2000 based cars that were built can as far as I know be spitted up in 4 series and 2 sub-series, all based on visual differences.
Type 1, Type 2a, Type 2b, Type 3a, Type 3b and Type 4

Do you know if this is a period classification or something done later?

BERTONE Sole e Luce coupé 1959
Was the name of the Luce coupe just 'Luce' or 'Granluce'?
Granluce should be right... but I'm not sure at all...

FNM 2150 1968

Apparently there was also a break FNM 2150 Familiare (1971), but I doubt if this pic is a photoshop.
I'd say photoshop...

Thanks for the corrections!!!  :hail:

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2013, 04:23:23 AM »
Nice! You can count on me.

This one is missing : Pick-up FNM 2150 from 1972. Production - 3/7 cars.
Thanks!!!  :thumbsup:
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Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2013, 04:42:08 AM »
Wasn't there a 1900 Coupe by Ellena in 1954?
...and about your list, I think there were more models by the biggest coachuilders...for example, I think Pininfarina made 4 1900, 3 2000 and 3 2600, Touring made 1 Coupe and 2 spiders with the 2000 ('58) and a 2600 Spider ('60), etc. I'm sure they are all well known and you already know but I don't see them all in the list or they are under a different model. I think there should be a way to id the right model (with the year or some styling features) to help us in the process... 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 04:58:53 AM by Paul Jaray »

Offline 75america

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Re: Alfa Romeo 1900,2000,2600 fuoriserei wanted!
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2013, 05:11:10 AM »
Wasn't there a 1900 Coupe by Ellena in 1954?

As far as I know, no, but they were involved in the production of the Alfa Romeo 1900 primavera by Boano.
Although I also never found out exactly who did what on the project. (Ellena and Boano were closely related to each other)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 05:35:21 AM by 75america »