Topic: FW #360: Tomos Threewheeler 175/250ccm-engine, 1956, Slovenia

[Bill d isere]

Greek ?

[Rusty Chrome]

Tula?

[fromwien]

Greek ?

No

Tula?

No

[Bill d isere]

GB ?

[fromwien]

No

[sichel]

Switzerland?

[Bill d isere]

Yougoslavia ?

[fromwien]

Switzerland?

No

Yougoslavia ?

Yes. LOCKED for you for three attempts to find the solution

[Bill d isere]

Pretis

[fromwien]

No

[Bill d isere]

NSU Pretis ?

[fromwien]

No

[Bill d isere]

Tomos

[fromwien]

Yes! Next point on your account!

[fromwien]

Tomos-article in an Slovenian magazine 1956

[Bill d isere]

Many thanks for you
This is a discovery for me

[fromwien]

Quite the same to me. Never heard about before I found this Tomos threewheeler in this contemporary magazine

[Bill d isere]

So that will have made two men happy

[Wendax]

So doubts may remain whether it ever got even close to production or just existed as a modified Goggo Lastenroller picture.

[fromwien]

Doubts are always allowed, if something isn't of common knowledge, but the different front emblem is the most significant visible part to distinguish the two vehicles

[Wendax]

Yes, I can see the different emblem, but there were methods of manipulating pictures before the invention of Photoshop. 
And I think there is no doubt that the picture is not an actual photograph of a Tomos tricycle, but that the original Goggo picture was used and altered.

[Rusty Chrome]

I did think they'd done really well getting the machine lined up at exactly the same angle as the one in the Goggo brochure!

[fromwien]

Without ever having been on the board of 'Tomos' and having to take party for the company:
Doesn't the presumption of innocence apply before alleging manipulation if there is no burden of proof for such an approach?
Or are pure assumptions and sensitivities enough to form new opinions?
Discussions are great and very welcome, but should be based on facts. The only fact in this case is an magazine article. I, by myself, doesn't know anything more about this threewheeler than the article shows and says. The magazine is, in my opinion, a very reliable source, as I also have evidence of the other vehicles and engines presented.

People who more closely deal with vehicle history may know, that companies that replicate a product or manufacture it under license are happy to use advertising material from the original for cost reasons and change that in parts only. However, this does not provide any information about the production of the vehicle.

[Wendax]

I am not accusing anyone of anything, so there is no need to talk about presumption of innocence. It is just a question of interpreting the sources. All we know about this vehicle is the modified Glas picture above (which is not just an allegation). There is no mention at all of a Yugoslav licence fabrication of the Goggo Lastenroller in any books about Glas I know. And Glas has a rather well-documented history. I am not an expert in Tomos history, but the few web pages dealing with Tomos history (including prototypes) I found do not mention it either. These are the facts.

In my opinion there may well have been an idea or project to build the Goggo Lastenroller at Tomos who already built motorcycles under Puch licence and later on should build Citroen cars under licence. Hence the 1956 article above. But I still have my doubts that this idea ever materialized into an actual production while you tend to follow the idea of its existence. So when you say "Discussions are great and very welcome, but should be based on facts." I can't see any facts supporting or contradicting your or my assumption either. That leaves the "Discussions are great" part, doesn't it?

PS. I'll try not to take the "People who more closely deal with vehicle history may know" personally even though it sounds like spoken from a pedestal.

[fromwien]

Dear "King of AutoPuzzles Wendax",
absolutely no discussion about your extraordinary knowledge in this puzzle-group. However, I doubt about some of your answers. Regarding your last ones:

1) "All we know about this vehicle is the modified Glas picture above (which is not just an allegation).": I agree with this answer, adding: "...in the moment"

2) "There is no mention at all of a Yugoslav licence fabrication of the Goggo Lastenroller in any books about Glas I know. And Glas has a rather well-documented history. I am not an expert in Tomos history, but the few web pages dealing with Tomos history (including prototypes) I found do not mention it either. These are the facts."
Sorry, I cannot derive any "fact" from this personal statement. You just confirm, that you haven't found anything about it.

3) "... But I still have my doubts that this idea ever materialized into an actual production while you tend to follow the idea of its existence."
Sorry, wrong interpretation. I never have philosophized about existence or non-existence. As, in the moment, there is no evidence about that, except this single (altered) photo!

4) "PS. I'll try not to take the "People who more closely deal with vehicle history may know" personally even though it sounds like spoken from a pedestal."
Please have a look at "2)"

Maybe, a special book could bring more light in the "Tomos threewheeler"-discussion:
Anton Stropnik, "Vzpon in padec Tomosa v sliki in besedi" založba Royal Corporation d.o.o., Črniče, 1994
Translation: Anton Stropnik's company-biography "The Rise and Fall of Tomos in Pictures and Words" published by Royal Corporation d.o.o., Črniče, 1994