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Author Topic: SOLVED: si_380 - Saurer - D330 F4x2 - by Metz - 1980  (Read 1593 times)

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Offline sichel

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SOLVED: si_380 - Saurer - D330 F4x2 - by Metz - 1980
« on: January 21, 2023, 04:45:39 PM »
There are vehicles that one wishes would be used as little as possible. This is one such example.
The following information is needed for one point: Manufacturer and type of truck, manufacturer of turntable ladder, year of commissioning.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2023, 04:43:20 PM by sichel »
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline sichel

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Re: si_380
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2023, 05:42:33 PM »
Up to Experts.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline sichel

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Re: si_380
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2023, 06:47:05 AM »
Up to Professionals
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline fromwien

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Re: si_380
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2023, 06:54:32 AM »
Saurer D330B with Metz 30S aerial ladder, 1981?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2023, 07:10:42 AM by fromwien »
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Offline sichel

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Re: si_380
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2023, 09:13:48 AM »
Saurer: Yes
D330B: partly, wrong letter
Metz ladder: yes
1981: My source mentions a different year for the commissioning.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline fromwien

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Re: si_380
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2023, 10:16:54 AM »
One source says Saurer D330F, two other sources D330B
I've only 1981..
See attachments
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Offline sichel

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Re: si_380
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2023, 03:22:36 PM »
According to my source (it is based on information from long-time Saurer employees), at that time there were at most two letters for the type designation. One referred to the engine type and a second to the chassis...
If we look at the type plate on the radiator grille, this means: two letters for the type designation (with the "D" it is even three...).
The puzzle vehicle was put into service at a specific fire brigade at a documented time. This was not in 1981.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline fromwien

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Re: si_380
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2023, 06:52:24 PM »
The vehicle with the livery of the puzzle-truck is that of the fire brigade Landquart, Graubünden, Swiss, with registration plate GR 427. With type designation on the radiator grille 'D330B'. Have two proofs for that.
Originally this truck has been built for Berufsfeuerwehr Basel, wearing type designation '5 DF' on the radiator grille. Thie vehicle wore a different livery at this time. See attached picture. Are you looking for that one?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2023, 04:53:10 PM by fromwien »
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Offline sichel

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Re: si_380
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2023, 04:06:10 PM »
Yes, it is the turntable ladder from Basel. The type designation does not seem to be entirely clear. We can still try to clarify this. For now, however, the year of commissioning is still missing. Locked for you to clarify this question.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline fromwien

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Re: si_380
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2023, 06:16:55 PM »
Ok. The Basel-Saurer isn't identical with the Landquart-Saurer, you questioned for at first.

So, here the specifications of the Basel-Saurer:
Saurer 5DF D2KT 1976 with cabine-body by Frech-Hoch

The specifications of the Landquart-Saurer (original puzzle-fire truck):
Saurer D330B 1981
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Offline sichel

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Re: si_380
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2023, 02:43:08 AM »
The puzzle vehicle was also first registered in Basel before it came to Landquart. It is not a D 330 B, the letter "B" never stood alone in the type designations at Saurer. The correct type designation can be found in your documents.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline fromwien

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Re: si_380
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2023, 06:57:37 AM »
So then it's called a Saurer D330BF?
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Re: si_380
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2023, 08:03:59 AM »
This is one of two possibilities, the other is in your records. The solution is not entirely clear.
Please name or guess the year of commissioning first, then we can talk shop.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline fromwien

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Re: si_380
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2023, 09:14:57 AM »
I have already announced the year when the vehicle was put into operation in Basel: 1976
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Offline sichel

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Re: si_380
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2023, 09:51:40 AM »
The puzzle ladder is younger.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline fromwien

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Re: si_380
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2023, 10:17:56 AM »
1978?
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Offline sichel

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Re: si_380
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2023, 11:13:32 AM »
Even younger.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline fromwien

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Re: si_380
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2023, 11:29:46 AM »
1979?
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Offline sichel

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Re: si_380
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2023, 11:45:29 AM »
Very close to it.
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline fromwien

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Re: si_380
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2023, 11:54:42 AM »
So only 1980 left..?
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Offline sichel

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Re: si_380
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2023, 04:37:19 PM »
Yes, you are right.
Then I will try to shed some light on the matter. The puzzle ladder is a Saurer D330 F4x2 (See also the "bos" document), chassis number 210 xxx, D2KT-engine. It was put into service with the Basel professional fire brigade on 8.2.1980.
So, now to the letter "B": Saurer developed an engine series (D3KT- and D4KT-) with so-called "constant power characteristics" which resulted in lower consumption. Primarily, the series was characterised by a very high torque increase at low engine speeds, the so-called "buffalo characteristic". Hence the designation "B" for this series, which was used from June 1980, i.e. after the production of the puzzle vehicle, which was given a D2KT.
Where does the "B" on the radiator grille come from? I can only guess: Either it got a D4KT engine in the course of its career or someone had a D330B plate left ;-) The puzzle picture was taken in 2007...
Be that as it may: Here is a point for fromwien.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2023, 04:49:29 PM by sichel »
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline fromwien

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Re: SOLVED: si_380 - Saurer - D330 F4x2 - by Metz - 1980
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2023, 05:14:23 PM »
Sorry, I'm still concerned, despite your attempt of clarification, as your last attached picture of the vehicle again shows a photo of a fire engine, which was in service with the Landquart Fire Department, Graubünden, Swiss, with registration plate GR 427.
Please be so kind and check my first answers!
With the bos-proof. Are they wrong with D330B and D330F for the type and 1981? I've checked with the help of a Swiss friend: This vehicle has been registered with the plate 'GR 427' in 1981!!!
After I've sent the picture of the vehicle in service of the Basel Fire Department, you answered me, that I should search for a fire-truck in service of the Basel Fire Department.
But now we know, because of your latest added picture, that you were searching for a vehicle in service of the Landquart Fire Department, Graubünden, Swiss, with registration plate GR 427.
Please be so kind and clarify, what you were searching for. Thanks in advance
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Re: SOLVED: si_380 - Saurer - D330 F4x2 - by Metz - 1980
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2023, 05:25:22 PM »
According to my source, the puzzle ladder was put into operation in Basel. Apparently it moved to Landquart as early as 1981. The chassis number of the Landquart vehicle could be helpful...
Unfortunately, the hompages of the two fire brigades do not provide any information on our problem children.
The author of my source is the president of the Saurer Club Switzerland...
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline fromwien

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Re: si_380
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2023, 05:29:38 PM »
Quote from: fromwien on February 11, 2023, 10:16:54 AM
One source says Saurer D330F, two other sources D330B
I've only 1981..
See attachments
What was wrong with my reply #3?? 1981?? I've sent a proof to you!! May you be so kind and send me one, that shows that my source went wrong? And yours is the right one?
For remembering, I added all the proofs of 'reply #3' again!
« Last Edit: February 13, 2023, 05:41:04 PM by fromwien »
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Offline sichel

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Re: SOLVED: si_380 - Saurer - D330 F4x2 - by Metz - 1980
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2023, 05:46:25 PM »
I have already pointed out to you that your source gives a 330 F as the chassis. So what is the problem?
I will not respond to correspondence in this tone in future!
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Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke
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