Topic: Solved: Wendax 3970- Nagy Hármas by Car Repairshop No.3, driven by András Wimmer

[D-type]

Where's left? Italy?

[D-type]

Where's left?  Italy?

[Wendax]

Not raced in Italy

[sichel]

Benelux?

[Wendax]

No

[D-type]

An "Iron Curtain" country?

[Wendax]

Yes

[sichel]

Hungary?

[Wendax]

Yes, built and raced in Hungary

[knewit]

"Nagy Harmas" Special  - (that means something like Big 3) driven by Andreas Wimmer
The car is based on a Fiat about 1953 by  "Repair Shop Nr. 3"
I think the picture is from the Budapest GP 1960

[Wendax]

That's the car, but I have a different base. Locked for you to name the origins of the engine and the frame.

[knewit]

Bugatti-BMW

[Wendax]

Yes, it was built on the chassis of the ex-Esterházy Bugatti T35 combined with a BMW 328 engine and a new body.

[fromwien]

Hm, I don't know anything about this car, but it must have been built on an extremely modified 35-chassis. One of the most prominent parts of the Bugatti-racers is their forged front beam axle, I am missing at the Nagy Harmas racer..
Bugatti 35 picture attached

[pnegyesi]

Hm, must be an extremely modified 35-chassis. One of the most prominent part of the Bugatti-racers is their forged front beam axle, I am missing at the Nagy Harmas racer..
Bugatti 35 picture attached

They took what they got and tweaked.
The story of this car is quite complicated

It was built in 1953. Over its racing career it was modified, the puzzle picture shows its final state. Then in 1960 or 1961 it was retired and disappeared. In 1984 it was discovered by a Hungarian guy, a classic car enthusiast. He restored the car according to its original 1953 specifications (car no1) and in the process built a replica (car no2)!
No1: It went to Sweden, where it got a new chassis. The Bugatti bits were used to rebuild the Bugatti of Count Esterházy. The Bugatti is now shown as restored. The car No1 with the new chassis was sent to Denmark. It was for sale as of last year as an East German-built Formula 2 car from the late 1940s.
No2: Not a lot of people know, but there is definitely a 2nd car looking the same and featuring a BMW engine. It has been restored in Austria recently and it is for sale

As far as I know No1 and No2 never met in a classic car race.

[fromwien]

Oh thanks so much for all the good information. It's hard to believe for me that it has been built on the Bugatti 35-chassis, while checking the front suspension and the attachment points. There cannot have been left more than only the main rails and possibly some cross tubes. So wondering, why using this very elderly chassis-construction at that time, and rebuild it with a completely new front wishbone suspension. Strange and unbelievable

[nicanary]

This is the UK Chorlton Special, based on a Type 51. No sign of the beam axle.

[fromwien]

Having a closer look at the Bugatti 35-chassis, it can be seen with ease, that the chassis was designed as a two-seater. So it has to be narrowed down a lot to convert it for a monoposto. Secondly the main rails swept up at the front and rear end, to pick up the axles underneath. Thus, this offers no advantage if you want to use an independent suspension with wishbones instead of a rigid axle.

This should confirm my statement a little bit ('unbelievable, strange'), that it is completely incomprehensible to me why an existing chassis is converted in a very complicated manner instead of building a new chassis of his own

Some Bugatti 35 chassis pictures attached

[pnegyesi]

Oh thanks so much for all the good information. It's hard to believe for me that it has been built on the Bugatti 35-chassis, while checking the front suspension and the attachment points. There cannot have been left more than only the main rails and possibly some cross tubes. So wondering, why using this very elderly chassis-construction at that time, and rebuild it with a completely new front wishbone suspension. Strange and unbelievable

In 1950 private car ownership was largely banned in Hungary. Mirroring the Soviet Union Hungary was seto to became the land of iron and steel - the cars were scrapped, sent to the smelters etc. Motorcycle racing was supported, autosport not so much. But a group of enthusiasts persevered and held runs as part of motorcycle races with cobbled together specials, some leftovers and loaned cars from people such as the British ambassador. In 1953 a new era dawned for autosport: car repairshops, the repairshop of the Ikarus bus company and some other workshops (but not private individuals) were allowed to build racing specials for the new racing formula (based loosely on Formula Jr). They got parts from the Ministry. So basically they used what they could get their hands on. Car Repairshop No3 gut an old Bugatti, so they used that one.

[nicanary]

That's interesting information. It explains why they were still racing pre-war machinery. The car behind the Nagy Harmas appears to be a Maserati 4CM, although the rear dampers look unusual.

[fromwien]

That's interesting information. It explains why they were still racing pre-war machinery. The car behind the Nagy Harmas appears to be a Maserati 4CM, although the rear dampers look unusual.

I attached a picture, showing the 'Nagy Hármas' driven by András Wimmer on the left and the 'Maserati 8CM-3000' (Chassis-number 3015) of Tibor Széles on the right at the "Építők 1957. IX. 8-i Tihanyi Motorkerékpár és Autóversenye". The Mercedes-badged car shown in the second row is the SJB Special of László Sabján (No. VI Autójavító NV), assembled from two pre-war Mercedes. Behind him, in the last row, with starting number 3, is Ferenc Kozma and his Fiat-powered 'Kis Harmas'.

[nicanary]

Yes. I misidentified the Maserati as a 4CM. That explains the confusion over the rear suspension! Here's another photo of the Szeles 8CM.