Author Topic: SOLVED: si_250 - Hanomag-Stoltz - Dampf-Omnibus - 1907-1908  (Read 1340 times)

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Offline sichel

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SOLVED: si_250 - Hanomag-Stoltz - Dampf-Omnibus - 1907-1908
« on: April 19, 2022, 05:51:01 PM »
This seems to be something very special.
For one point: manufactorer, type and year of construction.
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline sichel

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Re: si_250
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2022, 12:49:08 PM »
Up to Experts.
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline FrontMan

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Re: si_250
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2022, 10:12:03 AM »
British?

Offline D-type

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Re: si_250
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2022, 12:09:14 PM »
De Dion Bouton?
Duncan Rollo

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Re: si_250
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2022, 04:15:45 PM »
Found it, I think.  Built by S.A. des Générateurs économiques de Paris. 1908? Operated in Berlin by "ABOAG" ?

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Re: si_250
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2022, 04:49:46 AM »
Not British and not built by De Dion Bouton.
But there is a connection to SAGE, they were licensees of an inventor's goods. The manufacturer of the puzzle-bus used the same licensor.
A bus of this manufacturer was also used by ABOAG for experimental purposes, subsequently taken over by the licensor and transferred to Paris on its own axle for demonstration purposes. Probably you have seen a picture of it, I attach it once. SAGE then modified the drive but was not the manufactorer of the puzzle-bus. Locked for you to bring light into the darkness.
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline FrontMan

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Re: si_250
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2022, 05:20:59 AM »
Please unlock, as I am floundering in the darkness! My parting shot is Darracq-Serpollet :huh:

Offline sichel

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Re: si_250
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2022, 05:44:58 AM »
Too bad, then everyone has a chance again. Unlocked
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline D-type

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Re: si_250
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2022, 08:45:35 AM »
Can we establish one thing?  Was it steam-powered or powered by a hybrid system?
Duncan Rollo

The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.

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Re: si_250
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2022, 10:28:17 AM »
Yes, it was steam-powered.
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline FrontMan

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Re: si_250
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2022, 11:18:13 AM »
French patent holder?

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Re: si_250
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2022, 11:48:15 AM »
No.
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline FrontMan

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Re: si_250
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2022, 12:16:38 PM »
German patent?

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Re: si_250
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2022, 12:19:03 PM »
Yes.
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

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Re: si_250
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2022, 05:17:53 PM »
HANOMAG of Linden ;D

Offline FrontMan

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Re: si_250
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2022, 05:27:59 PM »
Patented by Peter Stoltz of Berlin ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: May 08, 2022, 05:30:24 PM by FrontMan »

Offline sichel

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Re: si_250
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2022, 03:18:40 PM »
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Yes, it is a Hanomag-Stoltz! What was it called at Hanomag and when was it delivered?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2022, 03:22:38 PM by sichel »
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline FrontMan

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Re: si_250
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2022, 03:52:32 PM »
Now you got me.  20/25hp, 1906? :nerves:

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Re: si_250
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2022, 04:02:22 PM »
But I'll let you go again  ;) The naming is rather vague in my source, there is only one right general designation. The delivery took place a little later. Locked for you.
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline FrontMan

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Re: si_250
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2022, 04:06:54 AM »
30/35hp 1907?

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Re: si_250
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2022, 05:44:40 AM »
1907 is correct, my source calls the vehicle "Dampf-Omnibus" ('steam-bus'). As it is not certain whether that was the official designation, I'll end the puzzle here.
This is your well-deserved next point  :applause:
 
Peter Stoltz developed for "Motorfahrzeugfabrik Deutschland GmbH", Berlin different steam vehicles. Krupp AG received the exclusive licence for Germany, in addition to Hanomag, "Eisenwerke Gaggenau AG" also acquired a sublicence.
A speciality of the Stoltz design was the steam boiler. The heating pipes are not mounted in a cylindrical boiler, but on tube plates, so called "Röhrenplatten". These panels goods interchangeable and have withstood pressures of 150 bar during test runs. During tests in the "Mechanisch-Technischen Versuchanstalt", Berlin (mechanical-technical testing institute) the plates are said to have burst only at just under 800 bar.
The expected range of the water supply of 80 km was missed by a wide margin during test drives. Already after 20 to 30 kilometres water had to be replenished. The project was not a success.
I only knows photos of two different trucks and there is to be an sprinkler-truck for street cleaning in Cologne. There is also talk of two buses. One bus was built in 1908 for "Hannoversche Straßenbahn AG" (Hanover Tramway) and was also used there. In 1907 one bus was delivered to ABOAG, Berlin and is to be taken over by Stoltz after his retirement. This bus was transferred to the 'Paris Salon' in 1908 and led to the licence agreement with SAGE.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 08:49:44 AM by sichel »
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke

Offline FrontMan

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Re: SOLVED: si_250 - Hanomag-Stoltz - Dampf-Omnibus - 1907-1908
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2022, 07:56:44 AM »
Many thanks for the point, and the further insight regarding these machines. I found some information on the matter, which I was about to try and translate. :scratch:

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Re: SOLVED: si_250 - Hanomag-Stoltz - Dampf-Omnibus - 1907-1908
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2022, 08:55:46 AM »
Then I am now waiting for additions and deepening of the informations.   ;)
Ein Henschel zieht am Berg und ein Mercedes
an den Türen. (and an attempt of a translation):
A Henschel in rushing up the hill, wheras in a Mercedes wind is rushing through the doors. c/o norberthanke