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Author Topic: Solved: Wendax 1861 - Gräf & Stift Granit 32  (Read 783 times)

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Offline Wendax

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Solved: Wendax 1861 - Gräf & Stift Granit 32
« on: March 01, 2016, 02:05:00 AM »
Looks familiar? Let's see.

For one point, please respond and identify this truck.
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Offline Wendax

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Re: Wendax 1861
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2016, 02:05:29 AM »
up
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Offline jimjarron

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Re: Wendax 1861
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2016, 05:04:06 AM »
Phanomen Granit K27 ?
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Offline Wendax

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Re: Wendax 1861
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2016, 05:11:01 AM »
Well spotted, but that would be just a little bit too easy for AutoPuzzles.  ;D
It is not a Phänomen, but it is related, so locked for you for one more try.
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Offline jimjarron

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Re: Wendax 1861
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2016, 07:43:03 AM »
May as well unlock it.  If it is not a Phänomen, I don't know what it is.
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Offline Wendax

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Re: Wendax 1861
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2016, 08:11:00 AM »
Unlocked
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Offline richard cuyler

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Re: Wendax 1861
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2016, 06:48:28 PM »
Whatever it is, it has the coolest rear wheels! 8) 8)
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Offline Wendax

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Re: Wendax 1861
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2016, 03:15:51 AM »
Open for pros below the 400-points-hurdle.
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Offline Bill Murray

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Re: Wendax 1861 / MAX 400
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2016, 03:25:20 AM »
I believe this is an IFA Granit 27, postwar from the then East Germany.
The IFA name replaced the Phänomen name after the Russian occupation.

Bill
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Offline Wendax

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Re: Wendax 1861 / MAX 400
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2016, 03:41:25 AM »
You are right and you are wrong, I think. It probably was built by IFA, but this one was sold under a different name.
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Offline Bill Murray

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Re: Wendax 1861 / MAX 400
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2016, 03:51:35 AM »
It may have also been sold with the name Robur, I am not sure at the moment which name was used for the parent company.
Bill
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Offline Wendax

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Re: Wendax 1861 / MAX 400
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2016, 03:55:30 AM »
Yes, it was also sold as Robur, but not this early version. And it is not the name I was looking for anyway, neither the name of the parent combinate.
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Offline pguillem

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Re: Wendax 1861 / MAX 400
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2016, 09:53:50 AM »
Quote from: Wendax on March 17, 2016, 03:55:30 AM
Yes, it was also sold as Robur, but not this early version. And it is not the name I was looking for anyway, neither the name of the parent combinate.

Maybe Gräf & Stift Granit 32  (Phänomen Lizenz) ?
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Offline Wendax

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Re: Wendax 1861 / MAX 400
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2016, 02:13:14 PM »
That's the one!

Do you know whether these were actually built under license by Gräf & Stift?
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Offline pguillem

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Re: Wendax 1861 / MAX 400
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2016, 02:57:10 PM »
Quote from: Wendax on March 17, 2016, 02:13:14 PM
That's the one!

Do you know whether these were actually built under license by Gräf & Stift?

I don't know.  I was referring to the same eBay announcement as you, which says "Prospekt GRÄF UND STIFT Granit 32 (Phänomen Lizenz) um 1948".  I can't find anything else.
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Offline Bill Murray

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Re: Solved: Wendax 1861 - Gräf & Stift Granit 32
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2016, 04:12:38 PM »
My congratulations to Patrick!!

Immediately after his posting suggesting the answer, I went through the Austrian books I have and the websites I have bookmarked and came up with nothing. I should say, I found the same advertisement just by Googling "Gräf & Stift Granit 32".

I then spent almost 3 hours Googling dozens of possible combinations trying to verify that Gräf & Stift actually license built the Phänomen truck. I found no evidence that Gräf & Stift had a license to manufacture this vehicle.  I also tried to decipher the name and address of the dealer "Autohaus" from the advertisement but the resolution of the photo is so bad I also came up with nothing there.

I have come to the following conclusion, and I am not arguing a point here, that as Vienna was up until 1955 part of "Occupied Austria" and Vienna was surrounded by the Soviet Zone.  They may well have imported some vehicles from East Germany and they may have then been sold under the name of Austrian manufacturers.

A difficulty I still have is that Wendax' photo shows some distinctive ID points that do not seem to appear on the IFA vehicles.
His shows a "square" drivers door and a cooling door on the side of the motor hood, something I do not find on the IFA variant.
Also, the unique design of the rear wheels I have not found anywhere, let alone on a Phänomen, IFA or Robur vehicle.

I hope some else can find more proof that this is in fact a license built Phänomen, not something sort of "made up" by a dealer.

Bill
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Bill

Offline pguillem

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Re: Solved: Wendax 1861 - Gräf & Stift Granit 32
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2016, 06:09:06 PM »
Quote from: Bill Murray on March 17, 2016, 04:12:38 PM
My congratulations to Patrick!!

Immediately after his posting suggesting the answer, I went through the Austrian books I have and the websites I have bookmarked and came up with nothing. I should say, I found the same advertisement just by Googling "Gräf & Stift Granit 32".

I then spent almost 3 hours Googling dozens of possible combinations trying to verify that Gräf & Stift actually license built the Phänomen truck. I found no evidence that Gräf & Stift had a license to manufacture this vehicle.  I also tried to decipher the name and address of the dealer "Autohaus" from the advertisement but the resolution of the photo is so bad I also came up with nothing there.

I have come to the following conclusion, and I am not arguing a point here, that as Vienna was up until 1955 part of "Occupied Austria" and Vienna was surrounded by the Soviet Zone.  They may well have imported some vehicles from East Germany and they may have then been sold under the name of Austrian manufacturers.

A difficulty I still have is that Wendax' photo shows some distinctive ID points that do not seem to appear on the IFA vehicles.
His shows a "square" drivers door and a cooling door on the side of the motor hood, something I do not find on the IFA variant.
Also, the unique design of the rear wheels I have not found anywhere, let alone on a Phänomen, IFA or Robur vehicle.

I hope some else can find more proof that this is in fact a license built Phänomen, not something sort of "made up" by a dealer.

Bill

Guessing that Phänomen was the key word and that this truck was not East German, I just tried Lizenz and... Shazam !
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