AutoPuzzles - The Internet's Museum of Rare Cars!

Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2016 => Topic started by: Paul Jaray on November 21, 2015, 08:30:59 AM

Title: Solved -PJ693- MM racing car bodied by Bonora, around 1939
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 21, 2015, 08:30:59 AM
What is this?
2 points for you!
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: D-type on November 21, 2015, 05:13:14 PM
An early Gordini?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 21, 2015, 05:24:27 PM
Not a Gordini.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: mekubb on November 22, 2015, 02:14:00 AM
Because you are warding 2 points I assume it's a very obscure make or a home-built ? I try a French car
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 22, 2015, 03:40:58 AM
Not French.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on November 22, 2015, 06:15:37 AM
It appears to be an "offset" monoplace, and could be based on an earlier car than the bodywork suggests.

British base?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 22, 2015, 06:32:42 AM
It is pretty obscure indeed but not impossible for a reason. Unfortunately my souce only reports an approximate year and it's builder.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on November 22, 2015, 06:39:56 AM
It is pretty obscure indeed but not impossible for a reason. Unfortunately my souce only reports an approximate year and it's builder.

Is it British?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 22, 2015, 06:50:50 AM
Not British.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on November 22, 2015, 06:54:24 AM
German?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 22, 2015, 07:16:54 AM
Not German.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on November 22, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
So........Italian?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 22, 2015, 08:36:51 AM
Sė!
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on November 22, 2015, 09:16:02 AM
Fiat-engined?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 22, 2015, 09:42:26 AM
Not reported, but I doubt it for a precise reason.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on November 22, 2015, 10:25:41 AM
Not reported, but I doubt it for a precise reason.

,,,,,,,,because it's called a XXX Lancia special?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 22, 2015, 10:41:54 AM
Nope, but a similar reason.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on November 22, 2015, 10:56:30 AM
It may be an Italian car, but is the engine also Italian?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 22, 2015, 11:21:38 AM
I suppose it is.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on November 29, 2015, 05:48:08 AM
Is this car dated before 1940?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 29, 2015, 06:54:30 AM
There is not a precise date but it is supposed to be from '39.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on November 29, 2015, 07:25:29 AM
I've found a really obscure car in my reference books - so obscure I've never heard of it, and can find no photos.

In the 1939 Coppa Ciano there was an entry of a Rocca by someone named as "Ventidue". Any chance this is that car?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 29, 2015, 04:26:00 PM
Not Rocca. Ventidue is literally 'twenty-two'. I have no record of this car in any race.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 09, 2015, 11:42:21 AM
Because you are warding 2 points I assume it's a very obscure make or a home-built ? I try a French car
2 points, but not because it's impossible.
I'll ask for an additional info once the maker will be revealed.
With the right question, it will be solved pretty soon ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 19, 2015, 02:07:52 PM
Not an obscure name but you won't find it in any book about cars.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 19, 2015, 03:28:27 PM
Was it built by an Italian company more famous for making something non-automotive?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 19, 2015, 03:51:08 PM
Was it built by an Italian company more famous for making something non-automotive?
Exactly!
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 19, 2015, 04:10:28 PM
Aeronautical?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 19, 2015, 04:11:40 PM
Nope...
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 19, 2015, 04:14:21 PM
Household electrical goods?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 19, 2015, 04:21:12 PM
Closer to cars and airplanes than electrical goods.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 19, 2015, 04:22:33 PM
Closer to cars and airplanes than electrical goods.

Motor cycles?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 19, 2015, 04:30:06 PM
Yes!
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 19, 2015, 04:32:29 PM
Moto Guzzi ?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 19, 2015, 04:34:13 PM
Not Moto Guzzi.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 19, 2015, 04:37:54 PM
Benelli?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 19, 2015, 04:38:40 PM
Not Benelli.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 19, 2015, 04:45:17 PM
Garelli?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 19, 2015, 04:49:23 PM
Not Garelli.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 19, 2015, 04:50:12 PM
Does the company still exist?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 19, 2015, 04:51:24 PM
No, it doesn't.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 19, 2015, 04:59:15 PM
Are you the only person on AP tonight?  ;D

Fusi?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 19, 2015, 05:16:37 PM
I'll leave soon ... ;D
Not Fusi.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 19, 2015, 05:22:34 PM
I've researched the usual list of former marques, and there aren't too many which were still around at that time which weren't also car makers or aircraft makers.

Della Ferrera?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 19, 2015, 05:47:06 PM
Not that.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 19, 2015, 05:50:27 PM
Malaguti?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 20, 2015, 03:43:36 AM
Not Malaguti.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 20, 2015, 04:32:24 AM
Surely not Laverda?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 20, 2015, 08:53:17 AM
Not Laverda.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 20, 2015, 08:58:15 AM
I've finished my list of companies which no longer exist but were active in 1939, and had no connections to the car or aero industries.

Long shot - Aermacchi?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 20, 2015, 09:16:33 AM
Not Aermacchi.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 20, 2015, 12:23:41 PM
Moto Rumi ?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 20, 2015, 12:47:52 PM
Not that.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 20, 2015, 12:54:56 PM
FB-Mondial?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 20, 2015, 01:03:21 PM
Not that.
(It won't take too much...)
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 20, 2015, 01:12:10 PM
Frera?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 20, 2015, 01:49:33 PM
Not Frera.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 20, 2015, 01:53:49 PM
Aeromere?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 20, 2015, 01:58:00 PM
Not Aeromere.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 20, 2015, 02:06:10 PM
This is getting embarrassing.  I'm simply making guesses based on a list obtained on the internet, as I'm sure you realised a long time ago. I have no idea what this car is. I thought by now that someone else would have joined the guessing game.

Ceccato?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 20, 2015, 02:21:17 PM
Ok, time for some clues then.
It is not in a list I saw at Wikipedia.
It was closely connected with another brand, in that list.
They closed down in the late 50s (early 60s according to a couple of sources I just read).
The connected brand is still active and you did not mentioned it already.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 20, 2015, 03:03:31 PM
Italmoto?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 20, 2015, 03:49:39 PM
Not that.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: D-type on December 20, 2015, 04:57:38 PM
A blind guess:  ISO
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 20, 2015, 04:59:01 PM
Piaggio?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 20, 2015, 05:22:32 PM
No x 2
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 30, 2015, 08:18:27 AM
Very short name...
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 30, 2015, 01:29:41 PM
Very short name...

Two letters?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 30, 2015, 01:31:36 PM
Yes...locked for your next reply.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 30, 2015, 02:09:51 PM
MM ?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 30, 2015, 05:26:25 PM
Yes!
For the 2nd point now, who did the body?
Open to all!
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on December 31, 2015, 04:19:12 AM
Even though I now know the marque, there's still nothing on the internet. Guess - Zagato?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 31, 2015, 05:14:57 AM
Not Zagato. This 2nd point won't be easier...
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on January 01, 2016, 03:12:59 PM
I assume that this is not a well-known coachbuilder?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 01, 2016, 03:44:08 PM
You are right.
 ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 09, 2016, 07:19:58 AM
Body by Carrozzeria Xxxxxx.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: nicanary on January 12, 2016, 04:34:52 AM
I'm promoting this in case anybody thought it was still locked for me. Italian coachbuilders aren't my speciality, and quite frankly I haven't got a clue.........
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: oko94 on January 12, 2016, 04:39:49 AM
Let's start the guessing game.

Carrozzeria Marini ?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 12, 2016, 04:43:04 AM
Not Marini and not a known name. ('a', 'n' and 'r' are in that name.)
Xxxxxx
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: oko94 on January 12, 2016, 04:49:07 AM
Rosano ?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 12, 2016, 04:56:07 AM
Xoxxxx.
Except for 1 letter, all the others are correct but only one in the right position or, if you prefer, if you take 1 letter away from 'rosano' add another letter, and rearrange the 6-letter name, you should find the solution.

Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: oko94 on January 12, 2016, 05:07:44 AM
Conora ?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 12, 2016, 05:11:04 AM
Conora ?
Almost there:
_onora.
Locked for you now.
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: oko94 on January 12, 2016, 05:21:40 AM
Bonora ?
Title: Re: PJ - 693
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 12, 2016, 05:25:09 AM
 :applause:
That's it. There are few info about this car: it was built around '39, it was destroyed under the bombs during wartime and it was coachbuilt by Bonora.
Title: Re: Solved -PJ693- MM racing car bodied by Bonora, around 1939
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 12, 2016, 05:34:00 AM
I don't know the meaning of MM, since it was founded by:
Mario Mazzetti, Alfonso Morini, Angelo Mattei Giuseppe Massi-Mazzi and they traded in Motorcycles.  ;D
Title: Re: Solved -PJ693- MM racing car bodied by Bonora, around 1939
Post by: gte4289 on September 17, 2023, 10:41:53 PM
Additional images: