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Author Topic: Solved - NEH 4976: Shelby King Cobra Can-Am at Elva Cars/TAC UK for development  (Read 1619 times)

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Offline Carnut

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Solved - NEH 4976: Shelby King Cobra Can-Am at Elva Cars/TAC UK for development
« on: November 07, 2016, 06:56:08 AM »
What's this, for 1 point?:

Remember - solving puzzles using 'Google Search by Image' is BANNED on AutoPuzzles!
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 07:30:41 AM by Carnut »
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Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2016, 05:00:54 AM »
Experts?
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Offline Willie McCrum

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2016, 10:15:36 AM »
Alan Mann/Holman & Moody Honker (body unfinished) ?
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Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2016, 11:37:56 AM »
Quote from: Willie McCrum on November 21, 2016, 10:15:36 AM
Alan Mann/Holman & Moody Honker (body unfinished) ?

No; it might look like it but it's not it!
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Offline D-type

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2016, 12:58:30 PM »
Roger Penske's  Zerex Special  Cooper
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Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2016, 05:06:25 PM »
Quote from: D-type on November 21, 2016, 12:58:30 PM
Roger Penske's  Zerex Special  Cooper

No; that would be a very recent repost..
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Offline ValkyrieGT

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2016, 02:53:26 AM »
Cancelled 1967 Shelby Can Am car.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 02:58:23 AM by ValkyrieGT »
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Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2016, 04:36:11 AM »
It's the same car as the puzzle photo, no doubt, and that must be the right car.
But the picture I've posted was not taken in the US and it's seen in its early stages of development by someone other than Shelby.
I'll lock it for you to look into and see if you can tell me where the car is in the picture and who was developing it?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 08:23:01 AM by Carnut »
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Offline ValkyrieGT

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2016, 05:24:30 AM »
Not sure where your picture car is taken. I will guess it was being developed by John Wyer, prior to his GT40 development. :huh:
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 05:28:48 AM by ValkyrieGT »
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Offline ValkyrieGT

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2016, 05:44:18 AM »
I'll call it a Shelby. ;D
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Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2016, 06:14:02 AM »
I'm not sure about the full story.
Clearly it became a Shelby but it seems to have been something else as well, maybe before that.
John Wyer was a good guess but it's nothing to do with him, though that answer is closer than you might think..
I'm thinking of another company involved in Can-Am racing in co-operation with another very well-known racing car manufacturer..
Still locked for you to have another go.
I can't call is solved yet because in the puzzle picture it doesn't seem to have been a Shelby; maybe it was built by them for Shelby?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 08:24:13 AM by Carnut »
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Offline D-type

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2016, 12:20:29 PM »
It can't be McLaren.  Cooper were never involved in Can-Am as far as I know.

Was it a Lola before it became a Shelby?
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Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2016, 01:40:18 PM »
Quote from: D-type on November 22, 2016, 12:20:29 PM
It can't be McLaren.  Cooper were never involved in Can-Am as far as I know.

Was it a Lola before it became a Shelby?

Sorry D-Type but this is locked for ValkyrieGT since he's got the right car but hasn't identified it fully yet..
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Offline ValkyrieGT

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2016, 04:49:10 PM »
I will guess again and say Colin Chapman & Lotus. I say Lotus because of the strong Ford connection between Lotus & Ford.
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Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2016, 04:32:35 AM »
Quote from: ValkyrieGT on November 22, 2016, 04:49:10 PM
I will guess again and say Colin Chapman & Lotus. I say Lotus because of the strong Ford connection between Lotus & Ford.

Nothing to do with Colin Chapman or Lotus.
One of the other big UK makers of racing cars..

I'm trying to find out from their Club chairman exactly what the connection was and whether they originated the car, developed it or what.
Hopefully they will reply (only about half of such enquiries ever elicit any response in my experience but hopefully this will be one of the times I get one).
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Online Hiawatha

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2016, 04:34:01 AM »
Still locked?
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Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2016, 04:36:54 AM »
Quote from: Hiawatha on November 23, 2016, 04:34:01 AM
Still locked?

I'm afraid so, yes.
ValkyrieGT has got the right car but I'm trying to find out what the involvement of the other company was.  What I do with the puzzle will depend on what I find out but I may need your information yet!
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Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2016, 05:57:48 AM »
I've got to the bottom of it!

All I want from ValkyrieGT now for him to earn the point is to say who was involved in the early development of the car; the puzzle picture shows the car with them near their premises and one very well-known character is actually present in the picture, which I'll post once we have the answer.

Still locked for ValkyrieGT!
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Offline D-type

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2016, 08:25:10 AM »
Quote from: Carnut on November 22, 2016, 01:40:18 PM
Quote from: D-type on November 22, 2016, 12:20:29 PM
It can't be McLaren.  Cooper were never involved in Can-Am as far as I know.

Was it a Lola before it became a Shelby?

Sorry D-Type but this is locked for ValkyrieGT since he's got the right car but hasn't identified it fully yet..
My apologies - I missed the lock.
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Offline ValkyrieGT

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2016, 09:40:08 PM »
Please unlock the puzzle for others, as I cannot find your picture of the car & am mearely guessing on your varient of the car. I was only able to find the Shelby connection of this car.
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Offline Willie McCrum

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2016, 01:38:28 AM »
On the assumption that the puzzle is now unlocked and I've got to go to work shortly (!) can I jump the gun slightly  and suggest design by Len Terry, construction by Elva.
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Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2016, 04:31:18 AM »
Quote from: ValkyrieGT on November 23, 2016, 09:40:08 PM
Please unlock the puzzle for others, as I cannot find your picture of the car & am mearely guessing on your varient of the car. I was only able to find the Shelby connection of this car.

OK; I'll probably give you a point anyway when the puzzle is finally moved, since you correctly identified the car..

Quote from: Willie McCrum on November 24, 2016, 01:38:28 AM
On the assumption that the puzzle is now unlocked and I've got to go to work shortly (!) can I jump the gun slightly  and suggest design by Len Terry, construction by Elva.

You're on the nail there, Willie, yes Elva and Len Terry were involved, as was Frank Nichols.
Can you name their company which carried out this development work for Shelby?
Locked for you.
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Offline Willie McCrum

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2016, 07:11:01 AM »
Transatlantic Automotive Consultants I believe.  At least I got the designers first name right when I tried the first time !
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Offline Carnut

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Re: NEH 4976
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2016, 07:28:34 AM »
Quote from: Willie McCrum on November 25, 2016, 07:11:01 AM
Transatlantic Automotive Consultants I believe.  At least I got the designers first name right when I tried the first time !

Yes, indeed.  Well done and 1 point awarded.  I have also given a point to ValkyrieGT since he did identify the car in the first place.

I got the following information from Roger Dunbar of the Elva Cars website, who has kindly been very helpful:

QUOTE
The prototype was built not by ELVA Cars but with much ELVA heritage due to the involvement Frank and some previous ELVA employees.  ELVA Cars had been taken over by Trojan and Frank Nichols moved on to other things including TAC being TransAtlantic Automotive Consultants who also produced a prototype for BRM.  The company was under the supervision of Frank Nichols, Len Terry and Carl Haas.

ELVA built the early McLaren 'customer' cars alongside the Bruce McLaren Racing Team .. they wear ELVA chassis plates and were marketed as McLaren-Elva.  Still winning today!!
UNQUOTE

Below is the original photo I used for the puzzle, in which you will recognise Frank Nichols (and Len Terry?), taken in the Silverhill area of Hastings.
The car appears to have a registration number, but that is of course the number of the Jaguar tow-car, as in the UK any trailer has to take the registration of the towing vehicle of which it legally becomes a part:



« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 07:31:20 AM by Carnut »
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Offline ValkyrieGT

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Re: Solved - NEH 4976: Shelby King Cobra Can-Am at Elva Cars/TAC UK for development
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2016, 08:18:08 AM »
Thank you for the point carnut. ;D
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