AutoPuzzles - The Internet's Museum of Rare Cars!
Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2016 => Topic started by: galrot on July 23, 2016, 04:29:43 PM
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Identify this car, when it was made and who made it for one point.
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Experts?
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Is it a Hillman?
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No.
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British though?
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Partly, yes. :)
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Imperia?
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No.
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British chassis and mechanicals, foreign coachwork?
Still looks for all the world like a Hillman to me!
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Yes. But still no hillman. ;)
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How about a Standard?
Difficult make to Google, so if it's that I'll give up!
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No.
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rover?
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How about a Standard?
Difficult make to Google, so if it's that I'll give up!
Not as difficult as Singer... Thousands of pictures of Frank Sinatra and his ilk!
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Hopefully it's not Singer otherwise I won't bother either!
How about Sunbeam; some Hillmans were badged Sunbeam in some overseas markets?
I say it looks like a Hillman because the grille is identical and so are the wheels; that must make it a Rootes Group product and it's too small for a Humber and I hope it's not a Singer so that only leaves Sunbeam (as far as car names go anyway).
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It's not a Singer (or a Sunbeam). :)
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rover?
Sorry, I did not see your comment. It is not a Rover either.
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Ford?
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Just to show what I mean about the wheels (and hubcaps) being identical to the Hillman's:
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Not a Ford.
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Just to show what I mean about the wheels (and hubcaps) being identical to the Hillman's:
I'm not sure they are identical. The holes along the edge of the wheel looks more square on my picture to my eyes, but it could be the same. I don't know.
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Austin?
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Not a Austin.
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Just to show what I mean about the wheels (and hubcaps) being identical to the Hillman's:
I'm not sure they are identical. The holes along the edge of the wheel looks more square on my picture to my eyes, but it could be the same. I don't know.
I think they are identical, but they seem to be some sort of generic wheel from those days as I've found several other makes (incl Austin and BSA) which have exactly the same wheels and hub-caps!
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Vauxhall 10- based???
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I'm afraid not.
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Morris Eight with foreign body ?
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Not a Morris but it does have a foreign body as mentioned.
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AC ?
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Not that either.
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Matford?
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No.
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Rootes Group base car?
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Yes.
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Humber?
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No.
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Talbot?
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No.
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I would bow to Carnut's knowledge of British marques, but I think we just ran out of Rootes Group passenger cars.
Can this puzzle car be based on a ca. 1937 Commer van chassis?
Other than that, it has some ID characteristics of a 1937 Dodge but Rootes and Chrysler did not partner until the 1960's.
Bill
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It's based on a Commer yes, but not a 1937 model. ;)
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1939?
Bill
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I would bow to Carnut's knowledge of British marques, but I think we just ran out of Rootes Group passenger cars.
Can this puzzle car be based on a ca. 1937 Commer van chassis?
Other than that, it has some ID characteristics of a 1937 Dodge but Rootes and Chrysler did not partner until the 1960's.
Bill
Thanks Bill but my knowledge of the Rootes Group is obviously limited as I had no idea any Commer passenger cars were built before the Cob and some Estate Cars in the 1950s. Clearly the puzzle car is largely a 1938 Hillman Minx Drophead Tourer in appearance (which is what my searches have been based on) and probably uses its parts but has for some reason been based on a Commer van chassis by the coach-builder! I can't imagine why they've badged it as a Commer though; I wonder what Lord Rootes thought!
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1939?
Bill
Yes, it is a 1939.
Locked for you. :)
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Sadly, I am firmly stuck on this one.
I will continue to look, but please unlock it.
Bill
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Okay, as you wish. It's now unlocked. :)
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Coach-built in Belgium?
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No.
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Scandinavia?
Bill
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Yes.
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Norway?
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Yes, we are going to Norway again. :)
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Pros?
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A bit unlikely, but Jacobsens?
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No, sorry. :)
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Is it by a well-known coachbuilder, who might be known for other cars?
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I'm not sure if I would call it well-known, but it is not truly obscure either. The coachbuilders history is documented and I have a few pictures of other bodies they made. This is the only car that they made though.
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I'm not sure if I would call it well-known, but it is not truly obscure either. The coachbuilders history is documented and I have a few pictures of other bodies they made. This is the only car that they made though.
Did/do they usually body buses?
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Yes.
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Funnemark?
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No.
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Repstad?
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No.
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Schroder?
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Bjorges Karosserie?
Bill
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Not Schrøder or Bjørge.
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Foreland?
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VBK?
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Not Føreland or VBK.
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Vest-Buss?
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No.
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Strommens?
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No.
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Sanatan?
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No.
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Alfr. Hartveit ?
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No.
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Vestfold?
(Is that the same as Vest-Buss? If so how about Astrup?)
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Vestfold?
(Is that the same as Vest-Buss? If so how about Astrup?)
It's the same as VBK actually. VBK stands for Vestfold Bil & Karosseri.
It's not that nor is it from Astrup. :)
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Fjeldhus Bruk ?
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AKF?
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Not Fjeldhus or AKF.
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Hmmmm.. Really not that many left.
AMA?
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Sorry to disappoint you but it is not that either.
There should be a few coachbuilders left. :)
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Viggaklev?
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No.
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Bussbygg?
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No.
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Geijer?
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No.
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Knudsen?
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No.
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Skabo?
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Not that either.
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Norsk Automobilfabrikk?
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No, sorry.
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Kolberg?
Just how many coachbuilders did a country with a population of less than 3 million in 1939 have?! I don't have more than another couple of names then I'm out.
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Kolberg?
Just how many coachbuilders did a country with a population of less than 3 million in 1939 have?! I don't have more than another couple of names then I'm out.
I have a list with around 250 names of Norwegian coachbuilders and I would guess that at least 150 of them were active at the time. Sadly not much is written about them online but I have recently tried to do something about that on another wbsite (which is also why I have posted a couple of these puzzles here recently). :)
It's not Kolberg either.
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How about Iglebaek then?
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No.
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OK, I give up.
Good luck to anyone who hopes to find this...
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OK. Shame. I hadn't thought this coachbuilder would be that obscure for the Autopuzzles collective, but perhaps it is then.
Following coachbuilders have so far been suggested:
AKF/Auto-Karosserifabrikken
AMA
Arna
Astrup
Bjørge
Brumunddal Mek
Bugge
Bussbygg
Fjeldhus
Funnemark
Føreland
Geijer
Hartveit
Iglebæk
Iversen
Jacobsens
Knudsen
Kolberg
Munck
Norsk Automobilfabrikk
Repstad
Sanatan
Schrøder
Sigurd Jensen
Skabo
Strømmen
VBK/Vestfold Bil & Karosseri
Vest-Buss
Viggaklev
We also know that the coachbuilder usually built buses. So anyone care to give it a shot?
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I had Astrup on my list of ones which had been tried and discounted but they're not on your list so maybe I forgot to try it.
How about that one?
EIDT:
Ah, no - I did try them and you said no.
So you need to add them to your list...
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My bad. I must have overlooked it. Now it is added.
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I wonder if I mis-read 'Arna' for 'Ama'?
Are they different companies? how about Arna?
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I wonder if I mis-read 'Arna' for 'Ama'?
Are they different companies? how about Arna?
I think you likely did, as I had not heard of AMA before while Arna is a company that I do have some knowledge about. It's not them though.
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OK. Shame. I hadn't thought this coachbuilder would be that obscure for the Autopuzzles collective, but perhaps it is then.
If they don't show up on the first 20 pages of Google then I would say they're pretty obscure.
And if they're not on the first 20 pages they probably won't show up on any English language Google site at all.
Since using all the keywords possible surrounding this car don't produce any results it's possibly not solvable from a computer situated anywhere except Norway..
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If they don't show up on the first 20 pages of Google then I would say they're pretty obscure.
And if they're not on the first 20 pages they probably won't show up on any English language Google site at all.
Since using all the keywords possible surrounding this car don't produce any results it's possibly not solvable from a computer situated anywhere except Norway..
I think it is quite hard to define what obscure means when it comes coachbuilders here. I've searched for plenty of coachbuilders in the past that produce absolutely no results at all even if I know the name of the company and where no one seems to have any info about the company. This is not on that kind of level of obscurity.
I have a book (which have some text in both English and German in addition to Norwegian) which dedicates 7 pages to the coachbuilder with history and pictures of the cars. When I searh for the name of the company then I still find a active company with the same which seems to be successor to coachbuilder, I find pictures of a few restored buses that appears to wear their coachworks, and I find a Norwegian blog post about coachbuilding which mention them with their name. But of course I do have a Norwegian IP.
I don't think this car is featured online yet, but it should be possible to find the name of the company online at least. It is also possible to ask more question about the coachbuilder to narrow it down.
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Is this company present on the Rutebilhistorik Forening list ?
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Is this company present on the Rutebilhistorik Forening list ?
Yes, if I understood correctly what list you're talking about.
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Is this company present on the Rutebilhistorik Forening list ?
Yes, if I understood correctly what list you're talking about.
I mean the karosserifabrikker list
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I mean the karosserifabrikker list
Ok. No, for some reason they have not included in that list. They have however it on another list on their webpage.
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A.W. Iversen Karosserifabrikk, Lier ?
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No.
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I have a list of about 120 bus coachbuilders in Norway. To further narrow the field, can we limit the time frame? Was it active before the 1950s only?
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They were still active in the '50s.
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Brumunddal Mek?
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No.
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Tomas Bugge Karosseri?
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Not that either.
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based in a bigger city?
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No.
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less than 10,000 people?
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Yes.
I will say though that it was not located that far from a larger city so it is possible that you find it organized under that citys name.
Edit: I also updated the "guessed coachbuilder" list. ;)
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Sigurd Jensen?
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No.
BTW: As mentioned, the coachbuilder I'm looking for is mentioned on one of the lists at the homepage to Rutebilhistorik Forening. I would suggest to find that site and see if you could find it through there. I think it would be easier.
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Munck ?
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No, unfortunately.
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It probably won't help much, but here is a picture of the people working at the coachbuilder along with their workshop. The workshop burned to the ground in 1937. The man third from the left in the front row - wearing braces, a white shirt and a hat - is the founder of the company. The man farthest to the right at the front would later go on to start his own coachbuilding company.
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It probably won't help much, but here is a picture of the people working at the coachbuilder along with their workshop. The workshop burned to the ground in 1937. The man third from the left in the front row - wearing braces, a white shirt and a hat - is the founder of the company. The man farthest to the right at the front would later go on to start his own coachbuilding company.
Nice gang, but I don't know them. Eget verksted ?
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Are you asking if they were named Eget Verksted or if they had their own garage/workshop (which is what it means in Norwegian)? :)
They were not named Eget Verksted but it was their own workshop. ;)
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Are you asking if they were named Eget Verksted or if they had their own garage/workshop (which is what it means in Norwegian)? :)
They were not named Eget Verksted but it was their own workshop. ;)
Oh, I see. The same as Eigen Werkstatt ? Anyway, page 2 now : Karosseri Fabrikken, Bergen ?
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Ahh, I see. Yeah, I think they just mean that it was built by the manufactur itself.
Not Karosseri Fabrikken, Bergen. Wrong region of the country.
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Kambo ?
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No, wrong region too.
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Automobilfabriken Jensen, Sigurd, Eidsvoll 1954 ?
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That have already been guessed, but it is not that either. You are still in the wrong region of the country.
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Arvika ?
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No.
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H. Levin Hansen, Larvik ?
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No. But you are moving in the right direction geographically from Sigurd Jensen though.
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No. But you are moving in the right direction geographically from Sigurd Jensen though.
I have no idea where it is located but... Ilseng ?
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They were located in Hedmark (north of the last guess). It's not them and that's the wrong direction.
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They were located in Hedmark (north of the last guess). It's not them and that's the wrong direction.
I feel that OC Axelsen Fabrikker, Flekkefjord is definitely too far. So how about Wattenberg Karosseri Fabrikk ?
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It's not Wattenberg or Axelsen, but Flekkefjord is a lot closer to where it was located than Skien.
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I have no idea where it is located but... Sangvik ?
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Sangvik were located in Mandal. The guy farthest to the right on the picture I posted was Abraham Sangvik who founded A. Sangvik karosserifabrikk.
This is however not Sangvik, but it is very close to Mandal geographically. It was located between Mandal and Kristiansand.
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Brødrene Repstads?
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Already guessed, but them were located even closer to it. The coachbuilder I'm looking for was located in the neighbouring municipality of Søgne (where Repstad was).
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was it located in Lunde?
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No, that's quite lot more north than this.
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Sorry, but I can't find it. I glanced through the Liste med alle bevarte busser, looking for coachbuilders not listed in the Karosserifabrikker list. All I could find was Sannes H., Kolbein Sannes, Rasmussen, Gumpen, Kløvstein & Søns, Ødegård, Ole A. Eide, and Kjellberg but none of them seem to be located near Søgne. BTW, the only place north of Søgne seem to be -Northwest- Vedderheia or -far Northeast- Volleberg. I'm stuck. Maybe Pal will be luckier than me :huh:
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You actually mention the coachbuilder in your reply. You just need to figure out which one of them it is (which have not been mention before) and the point is yours.
I think I could lock it for you now. :)
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Sorry, but I can't find it. I glanced through the Liste med alle bevarte busser, looking for coachbuilders not listed in the Karosserifabrikker list. All I could find was Sannes H., Kolbein Sannes, Rasmussen, Gumpen, Kløvstein & Søns, Ødegård, Ole A. Eide, and Kjellberg but none of them seem to be located near Søgne. BTW, the only place north of Søgne seem to be -Northwest- Vedderheia or -far Northeast- Volleberg. I'm stuck. Maybe Pal will be luckier than me :huh:
More precisely.
Sannes H. : Haugesund
Kolbein Sannes : Haugesund (?)
Rasmussen (ARKA) : Os
Gumpen : ?
Kløvstein & Søns : ?
Ødegård : Ålesund
Ole A. Eide : Glomset
Kjellberg : Sweden
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^^ It is one of those, but I can't really give you a point when you just list so many of them. So I think you need to guess them one by one but you do seem to have certain idea about which one it can not be at least based on the location.
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^^ It is one of those, but I can't really give you a point when you just list so many of them. So I think you need to guess them one by one but you do seem to have certain idea about which one it can not be at least based on the location.
Well. Gumpen ?
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Yes, there it is. And for the record: Gumpen was originally established at Gumpen gård in Greipstad (now part of Songdalen municipality) and moved later to Brennåsen (also part of Songdalen). This is where Brennåsen is: https://www.google.no/maps/place/Brenn%C3%A5sen,+4647+Brenn%C3%A5sen/@58.098334,7.8646796,11.46z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x46381d7c061e2127:0x47ad58a18e0fb71e!8m2!3d58.1352201!4d7.8586402
Here is the original picture:
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congrats pguillem!
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Yabadabadoo ! The Great Tour of Norway is over. But that was something like looking for a needle in a haystack. Thanks for the hints ! :drive:
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Congratulations from me too, Patrick :hail: :hail: :hail:
And, of course, Pal and everyone else that tried to solve this one.
I will say on my behalf, I did try too and spent many hours on alternative Norwegian sources but came up with nothing.
No points, but maybe I get a pat on the back for figuring out it was not on a named car chassis but a Commer vehicle that was possibly a rebadged Hillman.
Nice puzzle, Galrot.
Bill