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Author Topic: Ubb191 ALFA 15/20 HP from 1912  (Read 3999 times)

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Offline mekubb

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Ubb191 ALFA 15/20 HP from 1912
« on: October 20, 2014, 06:38:54 PM »
What car is this and in which year it was pictured ?
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Offline mekubb

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Re: Ubb191
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2014, 04:27:13 AM »
No Xperts interest, Pros ?
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Offline nicanary

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Re: Ubb191
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2014, 05:01:06 AM »
Aquila Italiana?
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I must be right - that's what it says on Wikipedia

Offline Craig Gillingham

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Re: Ubb191
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2014, 06:22:37 AM »
I'm sure that's an Alfa Romeo, I'm not so sure of the year and the model. I'll have a stab at one of the pre 1920 models, one of the prototype G1's with a 4 cylinder engine?
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Offline nicanary

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Re: Ubb191
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2014, 06:33:30 AM »
Quote from: Craig Gillingham on December 31, 2014, 06:22:37 AM
I'm sure that's an Alfa Romeo, I'm not so sure of the year and the model. I'll have a stab at one of the pre 1920 models, one of the prototype G1's with a 4 cylinder engine?

Gosh - well done. I'll be interested to know why the bonnet shape was changed.

This isn't locked yet, but I would be upset if anyone tried to "steal" this from Craig  ;D
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I must be right - that's what it says on Wikipedia

Offline mekubb

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Re: Ubb191
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2014, 07:21:42 AM »
Quote from: nicanary on December 31, 2014, 05:01:06 AM
Aquila Italiana?
No

Quote from: Craig Gillingham on December 31, 2014, 06:22:37 AM
I'm sure that's an Alfa Romeo, I'm not so sure of the year and the model. I'll have a stab at one of the pre 1920 models, one of the prototype G1's with a 4 cylinder engine?
Yes, it's a Alfa Romeo G1, well found. Locked for you to come up withy the right year.
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Offline Craig Gillingham

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Re: Ubb191
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2015, 06:53:29 AM »
Actually, I'm surprised that's the correct model, because after I had posted that, I thought I should have guessed a production car models.

I'll have a guess at 1919.
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Offline mekubb

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Re: Ubb191
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2015, 08:39:32 AM »
That's just a couple of years too early... one more try
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Offline Wendax

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Re: Ubb191
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2015, 08:41:46 AM »
Mekubb, are you sure you mean "too early"? My source rather says "too late" for 1919.
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Offline 4popoid

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Re: Ubb191
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2015, 12:38:51 PM »
I agree with Gerd.  I think it is pre-war, not post-war.
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Offline Craig Gillingham

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Re: Ubb191
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2015, 04:43:16 AM »
This is a bit of a mystery, as I've found the same photo referenced as three different models of Alfa, as well as various different years. Does the source say it's from 1922? although, I think it is earlier.
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Offline nicanary

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Re: Ubb191
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2015, 05:18:48 AM »
I have found a source which states the year as 1921, but I have to point out my previous post concerning the bonnet/radiator shape. In all other respects this car looks like one of the post-war G1 race cars, but has the engine coverings of a pre-war model. Early Alfa cars had a radiator like this one, with angled edges, but post-war there was a more upright shape.

It's very odd.
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Offline Wendax

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Re: Ubb191
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2015, 07:20:10 AM »
As I think the discussion is opened up now, I may join in with what I have. According to the Hull/Slater/Schrader book it is a 1912 Alfa Romeo 15/20 hp, pictured at the 1913 Parma-Poggio di Barceto hillclimb. The Alfa Bulletin Board has it as Nino Franchini's 24 hp at the same race. Club Alfa Sport agrees about the race and the Signori Franchini and Santori at the wheel. In the race, the car was driven by Merosi and finished 7th in its category.
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Offline 4popoid

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Re: Ubb191
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2015, 02:07:45 PM »
Quote from: nicanary on December 31, 2014, 06:33:30 AM
Quote from: Craig Gillingham on December 31, 2014, 06:22:37 AM
I'm sure that's an Alfa Romeo, I'm not so sure of the year and the model. I'll have a stab at one of the pre 1920 models, one of the prototype G1's with a 4 cylinder engine?

Gosh - well done. I'll be interested to know why the bonnet shape was changed.

This isn't locked yet, but I would be upset if anyone tried to "steal" this from Craig  ;D

Please don't be upset Andy, Craig is welcome to the point, but I will weigh in with what I have.  From a site (not ebay) the puzzle photo is being offered for sale with the following information:

     Alfa Romeo 1911 24 h.p. race car press photo / brochure / literature
 
     Item no.: B22933
     Make: Alfa Romeo
     Year: 1911
     Model(s): 24 h.p.
     Type of lit: 7x9 :: Press photo
     Photos: View 1 
     Title: Alfa Romeo 24 HP Race Car Press Photo
     Description: Photograph shows three-quarter rear view of Alfa Romeo 24 h.p. race car parked
     in outdoor setting.  Photograph was produced in 1970 by Alfa Romeo company from original
     negative.

If this information is accurate, in that the it was released directly by Alfa Romeo, then I should think the company should know what it is, although they should make it clear that, if it is a 1911 model, it is truly an A.L.F.A., not an Alfa Romeo, as 1911 was way before Nicola Romeo.

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Offline mekubb

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Re: Ubb191
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2015, 06:24:42 AM »
Sorry for my late reply gentlemen, by mistake I marked this puzzle as 'read'. I have checked my Alfa books and believe that my source is wrong calling the puzzle car a G1. I agree with Wendax that the pictured car is a 1912 ALFA 15/20 HP (so before Nicola Romeo joined in) in the Parma-Poggio hill climb. So I have decided to give both Craig and Gerd a point and call it solved.
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Offline Wendax

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Re: Ubb191 ALFA 15/20 HP from 1912
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2015, 06:46:19 AM »
Thanks for the point
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