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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2015 => Topic started by: Tom_I on July 30, 2015, 05:56:32 AM

Title: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on July 30, 2015, 05:56:32 AM
Can you identify this car? For a point, what is it, who designed it, and when does it date from?

Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 06, 2015, 08:16:28 AM
Experts?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: wingroad on August 06, 2015, 02:29:38 PM
Looks a bit llike a Hillman from the 1950's
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 06, 2015, 02:50:26 PM
1950s is right, but it has nothing to do with Hillman.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: kwgibbs on August 06, 2015, 02:53:43 PM
Vauxhall?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 06, 2015, 03:14:23 PM
No, not Vauxhall.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: kwgibbs on August 06, 2015, 03:25:05 PM
is it a british ford?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 06, 2015, 03:48:25 PM
No.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: kwgibbs on August 06, 2015, 05:09:43 PM
simca?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 06, 2015, 05:12:00 PM
No Simca connection.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: frederick59 on August 08, 2015, 05:54:50 AM
Singer Gazelle?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 08, 2015, 06:16:44 AM
Not a Singer of any type.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: kwgibbs on August 08, 2015, 10:36:04 AM
standard?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 08, 2015, 11:52:13 AM
Not Standard either.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: mymokke on August 08, 2015, 08:50:03 PM
German Taunus concept from about 1956 design by Pinin Farina?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 09, 2015, 05:23:00 AM
"Concept from about 1956" is very close - just one year out. But it's not a Taunus, and not by Pininfarina.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: richard cuyler on August 09, 2015, 08:26:15 AM
It's really neat - it looks 'GM-family' to me, so how about a1956 proposal for an Opel Rekord for 1958, to match the similarly-styled Opel Kapitan?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 09, 2015, 10:57:39 AM
You are right that there are conscious elements of contemporary GM styling about it, but apart from that, there is no connection with General Motors. And therefore it's not an Opel.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: richard cuyler on August 10, 2015, 08:05:49 AM
Could it be East German or Russian?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 10, 2015, 08:28:23 AM
It can't be described as being of a particular nationality, as the base car and designer are from different countries. Neither of them is East German or Russian.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 13, 2015, 03:59:33 AM
Professionals?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Wendax on August 13, 2015, 04:06:16 AM
By a British designer?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: barrett on August 13, 2015, 04:28:13 AM
Studebaker?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Djetset on August 13, 2015, 04:36:04 AM
A mid-50s design for a Japanese marque, such as Prince?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 13, 2015, 04:42:20 AM
The 1950s date has been established, but apart from that, it's not Japanese or a Studebaker, and the designer is not British.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on August 13, 2015, 09:04:31 AM
Is the base car European ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 13, 2015, 09:11:28 AM
Yes, it is.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Djetset on August 13, 2015, 09:13:04 AM
A Raymond Loewy design?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 13, 2015, 09:14:33 AM
No, not Loewy.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: 4popoid on August 13, 2015, 09:28:04 AM
Is the base car from a company associated, in any way, with a US automobile manufacturer?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on August 13, 2015, 09:32:27 AM
Is it a proposal for a Volvo ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 13, 2015, 09:52:53 AM
Is the base car from a company associated, in any way, with a US automobile manufacturer?

No.

Is it a proposal for a Volvo ?

No, not a Volvo.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on August 13, 2015, 10:25:05 AM
Is the base car British ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 13, 2015, 11:52:41 AM
No.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on August 13, 2015, 01:01:34 PM
Is the base car German ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 13, 2015, 01:06:19 PM
Yes!
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on August 13, 2015, 01:08:20 PM
1955 Ford proposal ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Wendax on August 13, 2015, 01:20:24 PM
Someone trying to disguise a VW?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 13, 2015, 01:53:33 PM
1955 Ford proposal ?

Not a Ford.

Someone trying to disguise a VW?

Exactly!
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on August 13, 2015, 02:00:00 PM
Was Ghia involved ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 13, 2015, 02:27:29 PM
No.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: pguillem on August 13, 2015, 06:51:28 PM
Any relation with Vauxhall ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on August 13, 2015, 07:18:00 PM
Is the designer American ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 14, 2015, 04:09:09 AM
Any relation with Vauxhall ?

No.

Is the designer American ?

Yes!
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on August 14, 2015, 04:25:34 AM
Virgil Exner ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 14, 2015, 04:33:14 AM
No, not Exner.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Djetset on August 14, 2015, 06:33:04 AM
I guess there's no way that Harley Earl would be styling VWs?!
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 14, 2015, 07:42:31 AM
Certainly not this one.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Wendax on August 14, 2015, 07:47:37 AM
Was it done by a well-known American designer, like the ones mentioned before?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 14, 2015, 08:01:04 AM
Not as well-known as the stylists already mentioned, but not obscure either (at least not by Autopuzzles standards). It's a name that has appeared here before.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on August 14, 2015, 08:11:22 AM
Brooks Stevens ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 14, 2015, 08:21:28 AM
No.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on August 14, 2015, 10:36:02 AM
Was this designer part of Raymond Loewy's team at some point of his career ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Carnut on August 14, 2015, 10:44:36 AM
Del Coates?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 14, 2015, 10:59:03 AM
Was this designer part of Raymond Loewy's team at some point of his career ?

No.

Del Coates?

Not Del Coates.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on August 14, 2015, 11:04:29 AM
Has this designer ever been part of the design studio of one of the Big Three ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 14, 2015, 11:29:56 AM
He worked briefly for one of them, but most of his subsequent design work was not done for the motor industry.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: richard cuyler on August 15, 2015, 09:00:20 AM
Did this designer have anything to do with the rather attractive 1957 Buick?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 15, 2015, 12:32:26 PM
No, he didn't.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: richard cuyler on August 15, 2015, 07:05:57 PM
Larry Shinoda?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: richard cuyler on August 15, 2015, 07:06:35 PM
Bill Mitchell?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 16, 2015, 05:35:27 AM
Neither Shinoda nor Mitchell.

Reply #56 should perhaps lead you away from the more mainstream car designers.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: pnegyesi on August 16, 2015, 05:42:34 AM
did he work in non-vehicle industry?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 16, 2015, 06:29:11 AM
It's tricky to answer that without being misleading. Much of his work was done in what most people would think of as "non-vehicle industry", but as part of that, he did design vehicles of sorts.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: pnegyesi on August 16, 2015, 06:57:11 AM
but it was a type of industry, right?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 16, 2015, 07:29:32 AM
Another tricky question. It depends on how you define "industry". From the Oxford English Dictionary:

Quote
industry: economic activity concerned with the processing of raw materials and manufacture of goods in factories.

- to which the answer is "no".

Quote
industry: a particular branch of economic or commercial activity.

- to which the answer is "yes".

So it's not a manufacturing industry.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Djetset on August 18, 2015, 03:55:28 PM
Hawley Bowlus?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on August 18, 2015, 06:00:06 PM
Not Hawley Bowlus, but if you are thinking of his recreational vehicles, you are starting to move in the right sort of direction. The designer we are looking for was not involved with trailers/caravans, as far as I know.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: WayneB on September 05, 2015, 09:59:40 PM
Alex Tremulis
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on September 06, 2015, 06:10:15 AM
No. As already hinted, to find this designer you need to move away from the mainstream motor industry.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on October 16, 2015, 11:26:52 AM
Was this guy a boat designer ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on October 16, 2015, 11:58:48 AM
No, though during the course of his career he did design one or two waterborne vessels.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on October 16, 2015, 12:15:00 PM
Was he an architect ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on October 16, 2015, 12:21:04 PM
No.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on October 16, 2015, 01:23:46 PM
Was he usually designing static objects (appliances, furniture, graphics...) or rather moving ones (any kind of transportation means) ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on October 16, 2015, 03:36:23 PM
Was he usually designing static objects (appliances, furniture, graphics...) or rather moving ones (any kind of transportation means) ?

Mostly moving objects.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on October 16, 2015, 03:39:51 PM
Planes ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: 4popoid on October 16, 2015, 04:27:08 PM
Alexis de Sakhnoffsky?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on October 16, 2015, 04:33:34 PM
Not an aircraft designer, and not Alexis de Sakhnoffsky.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on October 16, 2015, 05:19:44 PM
Trains ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on October 16, 2015, 05:33:36 PM
Not a railway designer.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on October 16, 2015, 05:47:18 PM
Trucks ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on October 16, 2015, 06:05:23 PM
No, not trucks either.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: kwgibbs on October 17, 2015, 08:03:20 AM
jay doblin,perhaps?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on October 17, 2015, 08:07:06 AM
No, not Jay Doblin.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on October 17, 2015, 08:33:52 AM
Industrial vehicles ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on October 17, 2015, 10:06:12 AM
No.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on October 17, 2015, 10:36:28 AM
Not planes, not boats, not trucks, not trains ... which moving objects are left ? Rockets/space ships ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on October 17, 2015, 10:47:01 AM
Not an aerospace designer.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on October 17, 2015, 10:50:31 AM
Toy designer ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on October 17, 2015, 01:20:32 PM
Not a toy designer.

As a hint, earlier in this puzzle I said that while this designer mainly worked in a non-vehicle industry, he nevertheless did design some vehicles of sorts during the course of his career.

In a similar way, although he could not be described as an aeronautic, aerospace, marine or railway designer, during his career he did design items which could loosely be included in most, if not all, of these categories.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on October 17, 2015, 02:51:01 PM
Did he design merry-go-rounds ? They often include scale models of planes, cars or boats.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on October 17, 2015, 03:31:35 PM
I'm not sure that merry-go-rounds is quite the right term, but you are definitely heading in the right direction.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on October 17, 2015, 05:15:30 PM
Did he design rides and attractions (roller coasters, bumper cars, ghost trains...) for amusement parks ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on October 17, 2015, 05:31:37 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on October 17, 2015, 05:35:55 PM
Bob Gurr ?
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on October 17, 2015, 05:59:01 PM
Yes, you've got it. Well done.

It's by R.H. Gurr, also known as Henry or Bob. After a brief spell at Ford, he worked extensively for the Disney organisation. He is quoted as saying "If it moves at Disneyland, I probably designed it".

He has appeared on Autopuzzles before, for example in this thread (http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=19131.msg192251#msg192251).

I'll award a point to oko94. I'm away from home at the moment, so I'll leave the puzzle here for now, and post the original drawing and other information when I get home, hopefully Monday.
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: oko94 on October 17, 2015, 06:06:32 PM
Thanks ! Very nice puzzle, lots of head scratching but it wasn't in vain !
Title: Re: TEI #42 - Solved. VW Beetle design concept by R.H. Gurr, 1957
Post by: Tom_I on October 19, 2015, 10:45:01 AM
Here's the original drawing, with an idea of how it would fit with the VW floorpan. This appeared in a magazine in 1957, and I don't think it was ever intended as anything other than a speculative design concept.

Later Gurr said of of it:

Quote
Much speculation existed in the mid to late Fifties as to what a "real" VW should look like. Unfortunately, I went for the full GM cliché. Time has now taught us that you don't mess with functional purity.