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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2015 => Topic started by: Wendax on April 21, 2012, 01:27:02 AM

Title: Solved: Wendax 556 - Hanomag 4/23 PS Cabriolet by Keibl
Post by: Wendax on April 21, 2012, 01:27:02 AM
I'm not absolutely sure what car this is. I have an idea, but couldn't confirm it.

For one point, please respond and identify this car (with proof).
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on April 29, 2012, 02:34:30 PM
up
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 06, 2012, 02:01:54 AM
up again
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Manuel on May 06, 2012, 02:22:58 AM

Seen this one before just recently on another "What is it"?

Manuel in Oz
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 06, 2012, 08:33:14 AM
Keep us informed when they have a solution. It might bring you a point.  ;)
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: sixtee5cuda on May 06, 2012, 06:03:48 PM
I cannot find the exact image provided, but the car shares a lot of characteristics with various Hispano-Suiza pictures I have found.

Size of headlights, cross-bar between headlights, shiny flat plane between radiator and bumper, shape of bumper, high-mounted wipers connected by a bar.  (Understanding, many cars from the 30's share all these characteristics)

The shiny part of the radiator with the triangle, I believe is an aftermarket add-on, which can be found on many other brands of car.  I have seen this radiator cover on at least one other Hispano-Suiza.

One of the hardest features of this car to find in an image, is the longitudinal dividing line on the fenders.  I have found other H-S's with character lines in the front fenders, but they are usually centered on the lights on top of the fenders.
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 07, 2012, 02:18:07 AM
Very interesting!
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: RayTheRat on May 08, 2012, 10:43:47 AM
I agree with sixtee5cuda.  But my head screams "Isotta-Fraschini," even though the grill doesn't match exactly.  Is that the make?
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 08, 2012, 11:25:23 AM
The emblem in the triangle didn't look like Hispano-Suiza or Isotta Fraschini, but like one from a completely different make. It remains a mystery. As said before, I need a proof, because I don't know for sure.
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: RayTheRat on May 08, 2012, 04:38:32 PM
Is the car German?
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 08, 2012, 04:45:49 PM
Following the radiator emblem, yes, but I might be wrong.
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: RayTheRat on May 09, 2012, 12:04:39 AM
Horch?
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 09, 2012, 02:48:33 AM
No, the radiator emblem follows the triangular pattern
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: guido66 on May 09, 2012, 01:25:47 PM
Wanderer?
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: RayTheRat on May 09, 2012, 02:41:10 PM
Adler Standard, circa 1930?
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 09, 2012, 04:02:25 PM
Neither Wanderer nor Adler
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: guido66 on May 09, 2012, 04:59:26 PM
1929 Mannesmann?
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 09, 2012, 05:08:25 PM
No
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: guido66 on May 09, 2012, 05:39:57 PM
Last guess for now: Certus?
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: grobmotorix on May 09, 2012, 05:50:32 PM
Hansa-Lloyd?
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 10, 2012, 02:01:43 AM
No and no
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: roger on May 10, 2012, 04:21:20 AM
Could it be a 1920's Audi ?
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 10, 2012, 06:21:04 AM
Don't think so
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: roger on May 10, 2012, 06:05:48 PM
Maybach ?
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: RayTheRat on May 10, 2012, 07:31:39 PM
A 1931 DKW 4=8 grill shell has a similarly-shaped emblem.  Could this be the culprit?
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 11, 2012, 02:05:23 AM
Not Maybach and not DKW
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: guido66 on May 11, 2012, 11:17:03 AM
Selve?
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 11, 2012, 11:39:35 AM
No
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: grobmotorix on May 11, 2012, 04:39:42 PM
Hanomag?
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 11, 2012, 04:45:21 PM
Yes, that's what I think it is looking at the radiator, but I need a proof what this car really is in order to grant a point.
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: grobmotorix on May 11, 2012, 04:50:18 PM
Yes, this looks definitly like a Hanomag logo.
But I do not have an idea about the type really, yet.
It might be an early Rekord or Sturm, but I´ve got to check...
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 11, 2012, 04:54:07 PM
Regarding the size, the exquisite bodywork and the background setting I thought of an early Hanomag Sturm, but couldn't find any picture that resembled this car.
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: grobmotorix on May 11, 2012, 04:55:27 PM
It seems even too big for an early Sturm... Strange ???

Special bodies for Hanomags have been built by Ambi-Budd, Hebmüller, Karmann and Wendler in the mid 1930´s in bigger numbers.

But this body does not even look german in my eyes...
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 11, 2012, 04:59:49 PM
It seems even too big for an early Sturm... Strange ???
That's the reason why - when I first saw this picture - I saved it under "Das ist doch kein Hanomag" (That ain't no Hanomag)  ;D
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: grobmotorix on May 11, 2012, 05:10:49 PM
It looks like a ca. 1929-33 styling and the Sturm debuted just in 1934 with a much more modern body and a different grille.
All the Garant and Rekord models etc. were relatively small cars, not to speak of the tiny Kommißbrot.

This is indeed special... :P
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: sixtee5cuda on May 11, 2012, 05:33:56 PM
The emblem in the triangle certainly does look like some Hanomag symbols I have seen.

For a large german car to be made in the 1930's, by a small company, I suspect it was intended for royal or military use.

Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: sixtee5cuda on May 11, 2012, 07:30:29 PM
Hmmm.  I was wandering in another direction, and found a screen capture from a 1965 movie called Shakespeare Wallah.  It shows a 1930's car, with the same type of grill, with the same triangular opening at the top.  The image claims the car is a Hispano-Suiza.  Strange.
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: grobmotorix on May 11, 2012, 07:37:19 PM
To be honest, Hispano Suiza at the beginning was my first intention, too.

But the Logo has never looked like this to my best knowledge.
There never has been an "H" in the middle of the Hispano-Suiza-logo:

Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 12, 2012, 01:20:12 AM
...and there is no hood ornament on our puzzle car, an item seldom missed at Hispano-Suizas of the Thirties.
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: guido66 on May 12, 2012, 01:15:58 PM
The Selve Selecta had similarly styled fenders:
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: RayTheRat on May 12, 2012, 04:57:32 PM
I'm trying to think "outside the box" (or maybe just "out of my head") here.  Is it possible that the circular emblem on the headlight bar is not an emblem, but a siren?  Like maybe for a government official's limousine?

Then there's the radiator/grill shield.  If it (and whatever it is on the light bar) was removed, this angle photo would have a very different appearance.  More like the attached photo of a 1934 Hispano-Suiza.  Yeah, I know...there's the radiator mascot that's conspicuous by its absence, but then looking at the photo, if it had, say a Lalique mascot and the chauffeur was preparing to drive Madam et Monsieur somewhere of little importance on a winter's day, perhaps it was replaced by a dull and boring, merely functional cap.

The only thing I haven't been able to identify is the sculptured fenders.  Most of the Hissos I've run across have fenders that don't extend nearly as far down on the front edge.  I don't know if this is a characteristic of a certain coachbuilder or not.  If it is, that might account for it.

I've gotta quit searching for this on the web and leafing thru books and get to work on my race car. 

RtR
(out of the box and out of his head)
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 12, 2012, 05:21:53 PM
I think that the round item on the radiator bar is just an ordinary horn.
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: RayTheRat on May 12, 2012, 05:30:18 PM
That's a more probable explanation, especially since there are no "ahh-oo-gah" horns below the headlights.
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: sixtee5cuda on May 12, 2012, 09:30:29 PM
What is the shiny thing at the bottom of the radiator?  On the last H-S shown, it is black.

On RtR's picture, that car has most of the features I was describing as common to H-S.  If you were to convert the image to B&W, the radiator emblem would look even more like a stylized H with a bar across it...
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: grobmotorix on May 13, 2012, 12:03:08 AM
I´m sure the puzzle pic is not a Hispano Suiza!
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: sixtee5cuda on May 13, 2012, 12:26:26 AM
I just wish I could find another source for the original picture, or another picture of the same car.  Especially since I think I have seen it before.
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: RayTheRat on May 13, 2012, 03:53:20 PM
What is the shiny thing at the bottom of the radiator?  On the last H-S shown, it is black.

On RtR's picture, that car has most of the features I was describing as common to H-S.  If you were to convert the image to B&W, the radiator emblem would look even more like a stylized H with a bar across it...

I think it's the magneto.  Not anywhere near positive and I'm sure someone will correct me.   ;D

Funny thing.  The front end is very similar to a 1929-30 Auburn...all of the 8- series that I have in my reference libraries seem to have the same grill shell and "V"-shaped emblem:

Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Manuel on May 14, 2012, 02:15:14 AM

I have seen the pic before as well.

Manuel in Oz
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: roger on May 15, 2012, 08:28:36 AM
Another design point of note on this car, the wings / fenders curve down behind the front bumper.

I thought I had found another photo of the same model only to notice the front wings are still too high.

Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: grobmotorix on May 15, 2012, 09:44:13 AM
I think it is indeed a Hanomag, but this one really kills me.

There has not been a Hanomag car this big in the 1925-1933 period, when the puzzle car must have been built.

Maybe it has been a prototype for a big limousine that never reached production because of the 1929 global depression?
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on May 15, 2012, 09:51:07 AM
Just my thoughts. But I haven't read a single mention of such a car so far. I also had a look whether the background palace looks like one of those connected to the House of Hanover, but to no avail.
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on August 14, 2012, 02:13:24 AM
Waiting in the Black Hole until somebody may enlighten us.
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: grobmotorix on November 25, 2013, 03:41:58 PM
I want to know what this is!

 >:(
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on November 25, 2013, 03:53:28 PM
Ich auch! :sigh:
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on September 10, 2014, 12:46:50 PM
Puzzle picture added again. The more I look at it, the more I tend to say that Hanomag is the wrong answer. We should follow the Hispano-Suiza trail.
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: ropat53 on September 20, 2014, 07:15:44 PM
Puzzle picture added again. The more I look at it, the more I tend to say that Hanomag is the wrong answer. We should follow the Hispano-Suiza trail.

Not unless the picture has been flipped, because Hispano Suiza never made a single LHD car, not in Spain, France or Czechoslovakia. Same as Isotta Fraschini and Bugatti.
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: grobmotorix on September 21, 2014, 12:48:48 AM
Right. ;)
However the Hanomag guess is only based upon the logo.
The longer I look upon this photo I tend to say it is not a german design...
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on February 26, 2015, 03:25:08 PM
Good news, folks! I found the car. It is a Hanomag with a German coachbuilt body, and it is smaller than it looks. New guesses will be accepted now.  ;D
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: grobmotorix on February 26, 2015, 03:38:04 PM
Hanomag then... :D

Is it one of the better known coachbuilders that built this bodywork?

If so, my fist guess would be Buhne.

Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: ropat53 on February 26, 2015, 03:40:30 PM
I also think I found it
1933 Hanomag by Musigk & Haas.
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: grobmotorix on February 26, 2015, 03:42:05 PM
I started from the wrong side of this book... :P

I think you´re right ;)
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on February 26, 2015, 03:44:04 PM
Yes, I found this picture below today, and it reminded me of the Musigk & Haas BMW 3/20 PS. A look at a well known site brought the positive ID. It is probably a Hanomag 4/23 PS.

Two well earned points for ropat.
Title: Re: Solved: Wendax 556 - Hanomag 4/23 PS Cabriolet by Musigk & Haas
Post by: grobmotorix on February 26, 2015, 04:04:34 PM
It looked so much bigger in the puzzle photo... :o
Title: Re: Solved: Wendax 556 - Hanomag 4/23 PS Cabriolet by Musigk & Haas
Post by: Wendax on March 13, 2015, 02:24:02 PM
Another picture:
Title: Re: Solved: Wendax 556 - Hanomag 4/23 PS Cabriolet by Musigk & Haas
Post by: Wendax on September 24, 2015, 04:00:31 PM
Another view:
Title: Re: Solved: Wendax 556 - Hanomag 4/23 PS Cabriolet by Musigk & Haas
Post by: grobmotorix on September 26, 2015, 07:20:34 PM
supercool...
Title: Re: Solved: Wendax 556 - Hanomag 4/23 PS Cabriolet by Musigk & Haas
Post by: sixtee5cuda on September 26, 2015, 11:45:43 PM
It's so Tiny!
Title: Re: Solved: Wendax 556 - Hanomag 4/23 PS Cabriolet by Musigk & Haas
Post by: grobmotorix on September 27, 2015, 05:00:59 AM
Yes, the first photo made it look sooo much bigger than it really was!
Title: Re: Solved: Wendax 556 - Hanomag 4/23 PS Cabriolet by Musigk & Haas
Post by: Wendax on October 09, 2015, 04:21:57 PM
Rear view:
Title: Re: Solved: Wendax 556 - Hanomag 4/23 PS Cabriolet by Musigk & Haas
Post by: Wendax on July 31, 2016, 05:30:55 PM
Yet another view:
Title: Re: Solved: Wendax 556 - Hanomag 4/23 PS Cabriolet by Musigk & Haas
Post by: grobmotorix on August 01, 2016, 11:20:20 AM
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Solved: Wendax 556 - Hanomag 4/23 PS Cabriolet by Musigk & Haas
Post by: Wendax on August 04, 2016, 02:03:27 PM
One more:
Title: Re: Wendax 556
Post by: Wendax on December 23, 2024, 05:22:25 PM
Yes, I found this picture below today, and it reminded me of the Musigk & Haas BMW 3/20 PS. A look at a well known site brought the positive ID. It is probably a Hanomag 4/23 PS.

On the same well known site an eagle-eyed member recognized the coachbuilder's plate as a Keibl one. It perfectly fits with the A (for Austria) at the back of the car and the palace in the background which is the Upper Belvedere in Vienna. The Musigk & Haas logo looked quite different. I'll change the headline.