Topic: Solved: Wendax 1751 - Dort Four

[Wendax]

Metal and wood in the mix.

For one point, please respond and identify this car.

[Wendax]

up

[Wendax]

up again

[4popoid]

A circa 1922 4 cyl. Dort?

[Wendax]

Yes, a 1923 Dort Four sedan.

[Ultra]

I'd like to have it explained to me exactly how you came to solving this puzzle, sir. In detail and right here in this thread, please.

[4popoid]

I solved it as I solve all AutoPuzzles, using available internet information, as I have no automobile library.  As I have repeated many times, I do not solve these puzzles quickly.  I begin work on cars that interest me almost immediately when they are posted in the Rookie section.  Some are solved within an hour, but most take many hours, and many are abandoned, at least for a time.  This puzzle was one of those.  It was abandoned for a few days, and then returned to during a lull in researching other cars of interest to me.

From the beginning I thought that this car resembled a General Motors product, but not exactly, so I took the approach that it might be from a company in some way related to General Motors.  As you probably know, the Dort Motorcar Company of Flint, Michigan, USA was founded and operated by Josiah Dort, who had co-founded a predecessor company along with GM founder William Durant.  Prior to 1912, Mr. Dort was a Director and Vice President of Chevrolet, so it is not surprising, at least to me, that Dort products might resemble Chevrolet products.  All of this information is readily available online via Wikipedia.

If one investigates Dort cars, it is a short jump to see that some Dort models (the four cylinder models, not so much the sixes) strongly resemble the puzzle car, especially the rather distinctive radiator shell.

At this point I felt confident enough to add this puzzle solution to my "ready list" so that it could be posted as soon as it appeared in the Pro section.  Note that I was not certain in my posting, as indicated by the question mark at the end.

I trust this explanation meets your expectations.  If your concern is regarding GIS, please know that I have no idea what information this tool shows. but I doubt that it includes Wikipedia.







































































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[Paul Jaray]

I think something more is needed.
If I look at this picture, I see a prewar classic car.
Nothing special or particular. Probably the bodystyle, with those wood inserts, but beside that, if you google what you see, no-way you find it.
A Dort car is no obscure at all, but here, we are not even sure it is from the States, and Dort cars do not distinguish themselves.
You said it resembles a GM product...ok, I can't see that but can't argue...but quoting your source, Wikipedia, why not Oakland, Oldsmobile, Chevrolet, Durant, Winton, Welch, McLaughlin, Sheridan, etc etc etc that were GM products?
However, following your intuition, you guessed:
A circa 1922 4 cyl. Dort?
...but if you google 1922 Dort, you'll find a perfect copy of the puzzle car, in at least 3 websites:

http://classiccarslist.com/other-makes/15500-1922-dort-19t-for-salevery-rare-amp-originalruns-amp-drives-fantastic.html
http://www.webeautos.com/detail-1922-dort-19~t-for_sale-used-12970314.html
http://www.findnicerides.com/1922_Dort_19T_Riverhead_NY_249580278.veh

where you can read the exact model: 19T Sedan.

But if you use GSI, you'll find only this one:

http://www.hmautos.nl/occasions.aspx?aid=2108574&did=2586&herkomst=gpl

Where you just find that is a 1923 (circa 1922!) 4-cilinder Dort.

You studied the car and had this intuition...it could be a Dort!
If you google "Dort sedan", you'll find 2 of those 3 results above in the 1st page!
You go there, compare the pics and you'll know that it's indeed a Dort Model 19T!
Why the question mark? You didn't check it? So it was just a guess? One of the thousands of cars with the same appearance?
Furthermore Dort models where few, very few...you recognize it but did not take few seconds to find the exact model?

I hope you see the way it seems from 'outside'.

[4popoid]

I think something more is needed.
If I look at this picture, I see a prewar classic car.
Nothing special or particular. Probably the bodystyle, with those wood inserts, but beside that, if you google what you see, no-way you find it.
A Dort car is no obscure at all, but here, we are not even sure it is from the States, and Dort cars do not distinguish themselves.
You said it resembles a GM product...ok, I can't see that but can't argue...but quoting your source, Wikipedia, why not Oakland, Oldsmobile, Chevrolet, Durant, Winton, Welch, McLaughlin, Sheridan, etc etc etc that were GM products?
However, following your intuition, you guessed:
A circa 1922 4 cyl. Dort?
...but if you google 1922 Dort, you'll find a perfect copy of the puzzle car, in at least 3 websites:

http://classiccarslist.com/other-makes/15500-1922-dort-19t-for-salevery-rare-amp-originalruns-amp-drives-fantastic.html
http://www.webeautos.com/detail-1922-dort-19~t-for_sale-used-12970314.html
http://www.findnicerides.com/1922_Dort_19T_Riverhead_NY_249580278.veh

where you can read the exact model: 19T Sedan.

But if you use GSI, you'll find only this one:

http://www.hmautos.nl/occasions.aspx?aid=2108574&did=2586&herkomst=gpl

Where you just find that is a 1923 (circa 1922!) 4-cilinder Dort.

You studied the car and had this intuition...it could be a Dort!
If you google "Dort sedan", you'll find 2 of those 3 results above in the 1st page!
You go there, compare the pics and you'll know that it's indeed a Dort Model 19T!
Why the question mark? You didn't check it? So it was just a guess? One of the thousands of cars with the same appearance?
Furthermore Dort models where few, very few...you recognize it but did not take few seconds to find the exact model?

I hope you see the way it seems from 'outside'.

OK, clearly our minds do not work in the same manner.  I have already explained that I spent much time examining other GM related brands, not just Dort.  All were discarded for one reason or another, especially that rather distinctive chromed radiator shell.  No, I didn't look at every other possibility, but quite a number of others before I came to Dort. 

I did not see the three websites that you cite, but I did see one of that car (a Youtube). Clearly it is similar to the puzzle car, but just as clearly it is not the puzzle car.  It has, for example, a painted radiator shell, not chrome, as well as different decorative paint detail.  I have found no list of Dort models, so I have no way of knowing if the puzzle car is a trim level variation using a different model designation (19S, 20V, etc.), or if it is only a post-production repaint.  This car did lead me to investigate four cylinder versus six cylinder models, and I observed that the puzzle car more closely resembled a four cylinder.

So what do I know?  The puzzle car strongly resembles a single example of a 1922 Dort, but clearly isn't the one I saw in the Youtube video (the one you just cited).  It looks like a four cyl, not six, but might be a year or two different, with a different model number.  Hence: "A circa 1922 4 cyl. Dort?"  If I had seen the GIS would I have not stated that it was a 1923?  But no, I didn't see the GIS, I only saw a single example of a 1922 Dort which clearly wasn't the puzzle car.   

[Paul Jaray]

Our mind probably don't work the same, but google and a simple logic has to.

I spent much time examining other GM related brands, not just Dort. ...  No, I didn't look at every other possibility, but quite a number of others before I came to Dort.
I did not see the three websites that you cite, but I did see one of that car (a Youtube). Clearly it is similar to the puzzle car, but just as clearly it is not the puzzle car.  It has, for example, a painted radiator shell, not chrome, as well as different decorative paint detail ...  This car did lead me to investigate four cylinder versus six cylinder models, and I observed that the puzzle car more closely resembled a four cylinder.

So you studied the picture and since you

have no automobile library

, and according to the passages above, you studied it quite well.

The Dort in the Youtube video is exactly the Dort in those 3 links.
Below is the picture you surely have seen on your long searches for Dort cars compared with the puzzle car.
You do not think they are similar enough to be confident in your answer?

[Paul Jaray]

Please, give me the chance to be helpful.
This is just the last one of a series of puzzles and there is more.
I really do not want to post all of that.
I studied 206 puzzles and kept note of quite a lot of things.
It's not about you personally, as I said before, we all agree in recognize a valid car guy in you.
Contact an admin and let's close it there.

[4popoid]

You do not think they are similar enough to be confident in your answer?

No sir, I do not.  As you say: the cars "are similar", but clearly they are not the same car.  The puzzle car could be a different model (Gerd doesn't say), and I was, in fact, off by one year.  I am never confident in an answer unless I have written and/or photographic evidence pertaining to the exact same vehicle.

I'll PM Ultra regarding the issue.