Author Topic: Solved -PJ603- S.I.R. 9 HP Standard  (Read 2129 times)

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Offline 4popoid

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2014, 07:04:05 AM »
1907 Orie by Sta Italiana Automobili Lentz of Milan?

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2014, 07:33:21 AM »
Not that...

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2014, 07:37:50 AM »
Standard FAS?
I checked my source and probably you may be on the right path...it's not an ad by FAS but the company of the puzzle car was active from 1913 to 1915...
Locked for targhediferro's next reply.

Offline targhediferro

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2014, 01:57:07 AM »
I found nothing more: perhaps "Fabbrica Automobili Standard" continued the production after 1912 with the logo Standard, but I've no other clue, so if it's wrong, please, unlock.

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2014, 05:43:58 AM »
My source reports that probably this was the former FAS Standard built under this new name.
Locked for your next reply  ;)

Offline targhediferro

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2014, 08:50:14 AM »
I found a source according who, after 1912, the FAS production was carried on by Ansaldi. Is this the name you're searching for?

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2014, 09:46:55 AM »
Not Ansaldi...

Offline targhediferro

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2014, 10:59:39 AM »
No clue, please unlock.

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2014, 04:05:26 PM »
ok, open again!

Offline 4popoid

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2014, 03:33:54 AM »
Like targhediferro, FAS/Standard was on my list of possibilities, but I as well have been unable to make a confirmed connection to any name other than Ansaldi.   It appears that Ansaldi did not make any cars after the acquisition of FAS, but devoted the FAS plant to the manufacturing of artillery units.  This would lead me to conclude that Ansaldi acquired FAS in order to gain the factory, and immediately sold of the design for the FAS to a third party.  In addition to FAS there were in Turin at the time in question (about 1912) a number of small automobile producers which are today largely unknown.  These were shortly purchased by larger firms for their wartime production capacity, and thus disappeared into anonymity rather quickly. 

My speculation is that such a fate befell the FAS product during the period mentioned (1913-1915).  Following this thinking I will suggest a firm that existed about this time, and might have acquired the FAS product.  Is the name associated with the puzzle car: VALT by the firm Vetture Automobili Torino Leggere?     

Offline targhediferro

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2014, 06:29:13 AM »
I haven't an answer even if I agree with 4popoid idea about the fact that another firm could have bought the project, but I've no clue about who.
I found a part of an article, written by Donatella Biffignandi, of Turin Museum of Automobile, about FAS...I think it can be interesting in this post.

"The Standard Fabbrica Automobili , or FAS , was born in Turin in driveway Stupinigi, corresponding to the current course of the Soviet Union , March 27, 1906 , with a capital of 1,200,000 francs, divided into 47,000 shares to 25 pounds each. The Board of Directors was constituted by Emilio Remmert , Paul Axerio , Fortunato Ugliengo ,Guido Piacenza. Was Managing Director Eng. Cinzio Barosi . The Company had the target to build " in the manufacture of a unique type of car, the force of 10-14 horses , and generally the repair and trade of automobile material and accessories "( The Car, 1906) . By the end of the year presented his unique type at the Salon Paris. He talked about all the French press : Auto , Les Sports , Le Figaro, La Presse , Le Matin , L'Echo de Paris, perhaps affected by the " unique type " that promised ease and economic production, perhaps impressed by the monumental stand, lit by " a profusion of light" and " where two fountains bright served background " ( Sport Press , n .. 52 , 1906) . On December 30 of the year Next , however, the situation is profoundly changed. It is held that day the shareholders' meeting , and after the reports of the Board of Directors and of the Auditors , certain shareholders spoke. The work of the Council is in fact far from satisfactory: first financial year of the company ends with a deficit of 71 thousand pounds (over 370 million today ) , "figure more apparent than real , since a careful examination of the individual matches the budget it would be a much greater " ( L'Automobile , Dec. 31 1907). The Chairman of the Board of Directors, ing. Paul Axerio says also possible, given the state of the company described as " very reassuring " that the factory is dedicated also to other kind of production that is not the car. A July the following year , convened an Extraordinary General Meeting of shareholders , it becomes clear that there are few alternatives to the liquidation of the company. The loss Operating in eight months amounted to 370 438 pounds, which is about one billion and eight hundred million today (parameters "Il Sole 24 Ore" , 16.01.1995 ). The report of the auditors report (from MACS August 1908 and " The Automobile " , July 31, 1908 ) : " The program with which the Promoters called shareholders to constitute the capital , and that was the limit within which they must carry out their action , was set apart and did not gave any account . The is so that while one had been budgeted Plant that would cost £ 300,000 , it costrusse one whose cost rises to £ 884,000 ; that while the machinery , tools, etc. transmissions . should not exceed the 300,000 it spent £ 578,700 instead of £ 300,000 not to mention that other immobilzzate and some were lost in the item of plant.
But this is not enough , even the year was not less disastrous system of the Company.
The two hundred and fifty cars that were manufactured in the first year and three hundred and fifty in the second, remained a mere promise . Was spent , inter alia , a sum of £ 40,000 for the purchase of a patent , of no value, and they spent other considerable sums for subsequent attempts , because the production lacked industrial - technical base .
Lightness on the one hand , disorder and the other incomplete attitude here is that the causes produced the current state of things. " So write the mayors , giving in conclusion the Board of Directors full responsibility for the loss that appeared from the budget; then calling the Council to ensure settling of the estate. Given this situation, some shareholders propose to appoint a commission of inquiry , but the proposal does not accepted by the Council , is rejected by the Assembly. So is approved commissioning liquidation of the company , and three are appointed liquidators. But the story is not over. A group of shareholders holding the resolution of the Assembly , deeming it illegal because in it are not represented three-quarters of the share capital , the number of Trade prescribes as necessary to approve the liquidation of company. The F.A.S. therefore survives until 1912 , the year in which the plants are detected by Michele Ansaldi and the company dissolved."

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2014, 02:47:29 PM »
2 facts and a clue:

My source is a contemporary ad, where is reported the name (like FAS, it's an acronim) , the model name and the city.
The caption says that it could be (probably) the old FAS.

The city is not Turin.

Offline targhediferro

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2014, 03:26:09 PM »
FAP? Fabbrica Automobili Piacenza?

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2014, 04:39:16 PM »
Not Piacenza.

Offline 4popoid

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2014, 05:03:33 PM »
FIAP of Padua?

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2014, 03:29:38 AM »
Not Padua\Padova.

Offline targhediferro

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2014, 10:52:51 AM »
FIAP of Parma?

Offline 4popoid

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2014, 01:00:14 PM »
Is the city we are searching for Genoa?

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2014, 02:45:17 PM »
Not Parma or Genoa\Genova

Offline 4popoid

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2014, 04:42:26 PM »
Is the city we are searching for Milan?

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2014, 04:49:32 PM »
Not Milan.

Offline 4popoid

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #46 on: April 08, 2014, 05:22:42 PM »
Is the city we are searching for Modena?

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #47 on: April 08, 2014, 05:27:31 PM »
Not Modena.

Not far from Milan.

Offline 4popoid

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #48 on: April 08, 2014, 05:39:19 PM »
Is the city we are searching for Legnano?

Offline targhediferro

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Re: PJ - 603
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2014, 12:41:24 AM »
Pavia?