Solved - MJW #048 - Omega-Jaguar 1960

[barrett]

MG engined indeed!

I'm not sure about what exact motor it is, I have a cc listed but I can't work out what engine it corresponds to - it seems larger than the average MG engine...

[Allan L]

MG engined indeed!

I'm not sure about what exact motor it is, I have a cc listed but I can't work out what engine it corresponds to - it seems larger than the average MG engine...

Original XPAG as in MG TC, TD and TF and YA/YB was 1250 c.c.
XPEG was in the TF1500 only and was 1466 cc
Z Magnettes, MGA & MGB used the MBC B series which had the inlet and exhaust on the lefthand side.

[barrett]

Yep, that's what I thought! The information I have says the engine is over 2-litres which I couldn't believe... I'll put it down to a mis-print though.

In the interests of 'full disclosure' I'll reveal that this car only had an MG engine for a couple of years before it was replaced with a motor from another well-known British marque. The picture shows the car in its earliest incarnation though.

[Allan L]

Well there were also the pre-war SA and WA with six-cylinder push-rod engines of 2.3 and 2,6 litres respectively and the four-cylinder VA of around 1700 cc.
If it was one of those, the two exhaust pipes lead me to think six cylinder but who knows?

[woodinsight]

Is this car a 'one-off' or did the constructor build other cars?

Found it!
It's the Omega built by John Wilkes in 1960 and originally fitted with a MG ZB engine.
This was later replaced with a Jaguar 3.4 litre engine.

Two views below show the car with it's original MG engine and as the car is today with the Jaguar engine.

[Otto Puzzell]

I thought that looked familiar. It's fitting that woodinsight solved it. 

http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=13994.0

[barrett]

oops! Of course I had no results for 'Omega' or 'John Wilkes' 

A point for MJW for re-solving it, can somebody merge this now please

[Otto Puzzell]

Merged

[nicanary]

What is this car? When was it built, what is the engine, and who built it?

[prototypefan]

Omega Jaguar special
winter 1959
mg 2.6 then jab 3.4
john wilks

[nicanary]

Omega Jaguar special
winter 1959
mg 2.6 then jab 3.4
john wilks

Wow, that was quick. Correct on all counts - built in the winter of 59/60 with MG power, then supercharged, then rebuilt in 61/62 with Jaguar power. Lovely piece of engineering, rather than the more common GRP lash-up.

(I was sure this had been a previous puzzle, but I couldn't find it)

[Avalanche]

Wow, that was quick.

Dat wall...

[nicanary]

Wow, that was quick.

Dat wall...

But of course....how could I have been so stupid!  It's THAT wall......

[nicanary]

I've just found this photo of the car competing in period.

[nicanary]

And just reading the latest issue of Motor Sport magazine, I see that former Lotus GP driver and development engineer (he didn't want to be the development engineer but Colin Chapman gave him all the rubbish cars) John Miles once owned the car, and won a formula libre race at Debden with it in 1963. More trivia for our website.

[Carnut]

Merged (again..).

[nicanary]

Merged (again..).

This was one of my earlier puzzles. On the whole I've learnt from my mistakes, and these days a search by hyphen is usually undertaken. We can get a space probe to Mars, but we still can't solve this small problem  .

[Carnut]

We're all guilty of it!

[Allan L]

Over the three incarnations we still have a difficulty with respect to its MG engine.
In the first Woodinsight identified it as an MG ZB engine.
In the second barrett was puzzled that the MG engine was larger than the average MG engine at over 2 litres, but again Woodinsight identified it as an MG ZB engine.
Most recently Prototypefan has found that it was a 2.6 litre.

As I contributed at the time, ZB used the BMC B series (4 cylinder, 1489 c.c.) and the prewar six-cylinder W type was 2561 c.c. (usually referred to as 2.6 litres).
My opinion is that re-engining a car that had a four cylinder engine with a six-cylinder Jaguar engine is pretty unlikely for both engine length and weight reasons whereas I'd guess Jaguar engine was similar in weight and length to the MG WA engine.
In the advertisement that is online at present they tell us 2.6 litres but the photos of the RF60 logbook show 2496 c.c. and an  engine number 826 (or perhaps 526). The WA engines seem to have numbers in the form QPJG-722 - perhaps Surrey CC just left out the QPJG- bit when they registered it but where the capacity came from who can say?

[Reid Railton]

Just found this forum and this discussion about the Omega which I owned from 1968 until 2010.  During that time I contacted the builder John Wilks and here is some of the info he gave me in letters (I couldn't decipher one or two words) about the engines and the rear suspension

The car was originally built with a 2.6 litre ZB MG engine and gearbox and run at a few hillclimbs and S.S. [standing start] quarters.  The car performed well but I felt it needed more ? and after about six months a Zoller compressor (off Goldie Gardner's 1.5 litre record breaker) was grafted on.  The only event that the car ran in in this form was the Brighton Speed Trials, which it didn't finish due to the blower drive disintegrating. Restored to a supercharged form it finished out the 1960 season until the crankshaft gently parted in the middle of a big end bearing on the way home from Stapleford.

During the 1961-62 winter the 3442 Jaguar ex MK7 was fitted with150S gearbox.  Originally 3x2 choke SUs were fitted, but there was very little reduction in speed by going to 3x1 choke and the difference in drivability was tremendous

At the same time the car was fitted with I.R.S. using a rigid diff mounting and inboard brakes and used the current Lotus pattern with the driveshaft as the top transverse link.  In this form it was used for one very frightening race at Brands.

1962 early the I.R.S. came off.  The car assumed its present form with 'A'  bracket location for a rigid rear axle.

Please post any other questions and I'll do my best to answer them

PS – the car looks much better without the spare wheel.  It was never there originally and we decided to fit it during restoration because we intended go touring. (The mounting for the spare is attached using the mounts for the trailing arms for the IRS, no additional alteration to the car from the original.)  But it didn't turn out that simple, the touring didn't happen.

[Carnut]

Fascinating.  Many thanks.
Hope you stay with us.

[Allan L]

Thanks for this Reid Railton but, at the risk of labouring the point MG ZB and 2.6 litres do not match. The ZB Magnette of the 1950s had the 4-cylinder BMC B Series engine of 1½ litres and the only 2.6 litre MG was the 6-cylinder WA of the late 1930s. Without any direct knowledge I'd say replacing a six cylinder MG WA engine with a six-cylinder Jaguar engine would be likely so the "ZB" bit must be a mistake.
The photo of it competing in period (posted April 2014) has a couple of the twin-choke SUs visible

[Reid Railton]

The MG engine info was from John Wilks' letter - looks like he was wrong in saying in saying ZB - I suspect you're corect in saying WA.
Here's a photo on the car being constructed showing the MG engine.

[Reid Railton]

Blimey - what do I need to do to post a reasonably sized photo

[Carnut]

Blimey - what do I need to do to post a reasonably sized photo

I've resized it for you!