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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2013 => Topic started by: sixtee5cuda on October 21, 2013, 09:33:20 AM

Title: SOLVED: WTH # 272 - 1914 Ford w body by Messrs Stanger & Son of Spalding, UK
Post by: sixtee5cuda on October 21, 2013, 09:33:20 AM
For one point, specify the year, make, and coachbuilder of this old car
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on October 28, 2013, 08:36:45 AM
Up!

The experts have no interest in this one.  Time for 20 questions from the Pros?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Wendax on October 28, 2013, 08:46:09 AM
British?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on October 28, 2013, 09:21:40 AM
The limited information I possess, indicates the coachbuilder may be British.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: 4popoid on October 28, 2013, 11:59:07 AM
Is the base car French?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on October 28, 2013, 05:04:23 PM
Base car is not French
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: 4popoid on October 28, 2013, 06:42:30 PM
Is the base car German?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on October 28, 2013, 07:51:30 PM
Not German.

Enough country questions.  It was probably built in England or the USA, factories produced it in both locations.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: ropat53 on October 28, 2013, 10:15:53 PM
The limited information I possess, indicates the coachbuilder may be British.

Is the base car British?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on October 28, 2013, 11:53:18 PM
If you state the name of the base car, it is not considered British.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: 4popoid on October 29, 2013, 03:22:17 AM
Bedford-Buick from about 1912?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on October 29, 2013, 08:02:08 AM
Not a Buick.  Slightly newer.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: nicanary on October 29, 2013, 08:05:59 AM
From the clues you have given - is this a Ford Model T ?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on October 29, 2013, 08:37:21 AM
It is a Ford Model T.  I would consider a lock, if it would help you Nicanary.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: nicanary on October 29, 2013, 09:04:45 AM
It is a Ford Model T.  I would consider a lock, if it would help you Nicanary.

Don't lock. I can't find anything yet, and I'll be going to work very soon. It wouldn't be fair to others.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: ropat53 on October 30, 2013, 09:36:48 PM
1921 Model T Ford with body by Offord & Sons Ltd.?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on October 30, 2013, 11:02:16 PM
Older than 1921, not by Offord & Sons Ltd.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: ropat53 on October 31, 2013, 08:56:26 AM
How about 1913 Model T Ford with body by Ralph E. Sanders & Sons?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on October 31, 2013, 09:09:22 AM
One year off, a Son is involved, and the last name starts with an S.  But it isn't Sanders.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 31, 2013, 09:45:48 AM
Salmons & Sons?
Joseph Sankey?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on October 31, 2013, 11:38:57 AM
Not Sankey
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Wendax on October 31, 2013, 12:41:49 PM
Walter Smith & Son?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 31, 2013, 02:58:51 PM
It was my next guess!
Storey?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: ropat53 on October 31, 2013, 03:26:10 PM
Salmons & Sons?
Joseph Sankey?

What about Salmons & Sons?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on October 31, 2013, 04:41:52 PM
Starts with "St", but not Storey.

Want to narrow the geography?  (not that I know anything about English geography)
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Wendax on October 31, 2013, 04:49:36 PM
Stevenson?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on October 31, 2013, 05:13:24 PM
Not Stevenson
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on November 17, 2013, 11:45:32 PM
Strangely enough, these British coachbuilders are referred to as "Messrs".  Is this common?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Allan L on November 18, 2013, 04:22:19 AM
Strangely enough, these British coachbuilders are referred to as "Messrs".  Is this common?
Yes, in those days the habit of referring to companies named after their founders in that manner was still common.

Since Ford made the Model T in Trafford Park, Manchester,  perhaps it is a coachbuilder from that area.  Not that that's any help to me.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: pnegyesi on November 18, 2013, 04:37:41 AM
Strachan?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: nicanary on November 18, 2013, 06:44:15 AM
Strangely enough, these British coachbuilders are referred to as "Messrs".  Is this common?

Presumably it's a shortened form of "messieurs", the French plural of "monsieur". Is this because the ancient art of coachbuilding had heavy French influence? I suspect not, because other business enterprises in the UK also used the term in their title, and I can only assume that the use of a French word goes right back to Norman times. One for a social historian.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on November 18, 2013, 07:51:52 AM
Not Strachan, not from Manchester.

When I first saw the company name, I wondered if it was French in origin.  The name doesn't look particularly French, except for having "Messrs" in front.

Moving along.  The third letter is "a".
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Wendax on November 18, 2013, 08:17:06 AM
Thomas Startin?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on November 18, 2013, 08:24:53 PM
Not Startin
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: 4popoid on November 22, 2013, 03:04:31 AM
Starnes?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on November 22, 2013, 08:09:14 AM
Not Starnes.

(I'm going to have to look up all these names, assuming they were coachbuilders.)
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: targhediferro on November 23, 2013, 02:42:39 PM
Stainway?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on November 23, 2013, 11:31:20 PM
Not Stainway.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on November 30, 2013, 02:20:18 PM
The Messrs were based in Lincolnshire.  I'm guessing that is something like a county name, as I also have the name of a city where they were located.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Allan L on November 30, 2013, 06:22:30 PM
The Messrs were based in Lincolnshire.  I'm guessing that is something like a county name, as I also have the name of a city where they were located.
Yes Lincolnshire is a county name, but in those days it was divided into three ridings (Lindsay, Kesteven and Holland) which were often used in postal addresses.

Strangely enough, these British coachbuilders are referred to as "Messrs".  Is this common?
Yes, in those days the habit of referring to companies named after their founders in that manner was still common.
Strangely enough, these British coachbuilders are referred to as "Messrs".  Is this common?

Presumably it's a shortened form of "messieurs", the French plural of "monsieur". Is this because the ancient art of coachbuilding had heavy French influence? I suspect not, because other business enterprises in the UK also used the term in their title, and I can only assume that the use of a French word goes right back to Norman times. One for a social historian.

I think between us we have explained the insignificance and origin of the common "Messrs." prefix in early 20th century Britain.
I'm sure there would have been an equivalent in the USofA at that time.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Carnut on November 30, 2013, 07:07:38 PM
Yes Lincolnshire is a county name, but in those days it was divided into three ridings (Lindsay, Kesteven and Holland)

'Parts' I think rather than ridings, which is what Yorkshire was divided into.  So you got Parts of Lindsay, Parts of Kesteven etc..

I think between us we have explained the insignificance and origin of the common "Messrs." prefix in early 20th century Britain.
I'm sure there would have been an equivalent in the USofA at that time.

In business, when writing to another company (as opposed to an individual) the letter would always be addressed to (for example) "Messrs Smith & Jones Ltd", then starting the letter with "Dear Sirs,".  It was, as already stated, a shortening of the French Messieurs but why a French word was used is lost in the mists of time.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Wendax on December 02, 2013, 04:24:31 PM
The Messrs were based in Lincolnshire.  I'm guessing that is something like a county name, as I also have the name of a city where they were located.
Was the city Scunthorpe?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Tom_I on December 02, 2013, 04:48:54 PM
As far as I know, the only place in Lincolnshire with the status of a city is Lincoln.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on December 02, 2013, 08:01:27 PM
City, town, village, all the same to me.  It's in some foreign country.  :)

Not Scunthorpe.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Carnut on December 03, 2013, 04:33:25 AM
City, town, village, all the same to me.  It's in some foreign country.  :)

Not Scunthorpe.

This isn't a foreign country, it's Britain!!

(as far as my Grandad was concerned there were only 2 nationalities in the world: British and Foreign!)

And incidentally Scunthorpe is the only place in Britain which regularly stops emails going through if it's included in the text...!
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Tom_I on December 03, 2013, 05:15:46 AM
City, town, village, all the same to me.  It's in some foreign country.  :)

I take it it wasn't made in Lincoln then?

There are not that many towns of any size in Lincolnshire. Going in descending order of population, the first to try would be Grimsby.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on December 03, 2013, 09:59:17 AM
Not Grimsby.  South of Boston
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Allan L on December 03, 2013, 10:11:57 AM
Not Grimsby.  South of Boston
That'd be Spalding then?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: nicanary on December 03, 2013, 10:43:28 AM
Stamford?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Carnut on December 03, 2013, 10:50:31 AM
I seem to remember there being a garage in Holbeach which used to do some coachbuilding..?
It actually belonged to a friend of mine's family.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on December 03, 2013, 08:38:36 PM
If it helps, the coachbuilder was in Spalding.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Carnut on December 04, 2013, 04:32:10 AM
If it helps, the coachbuilder was in Spalding.

As Allan L suggested...
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Tom_I on December 04, 2013, 06:10:15 AM
There was a family of coachbuilders called Wegg in Spalding in the early 20th century. Anything to do with them?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on December 04, 2013, 09:55:08 AM
As far as I can tell, no connection to Wegg. 

Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: nicanary on December 06, 2013, 08:24:52 AM
I have confused myself,and need enlightenment. The coachbuilders were based in Spalding, Lincolnshire, and the name was Messrs. Sta???? and Sons, or are there two names, because you said the LAST name started Sta..? So is it Messrs. ????? & Sta???? and Sons?

Help!
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on December 06, 2013, 01:43:43 PM
Messrs Stan??? and Son, the last name starts with "Stan".  Located in Spalding, Lincolnshire.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Carnut on December 06, 2013, 02:55:48 PM
Stanton? Have we tried that one?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: targhediferro on December 06, 2013, 06:19:29 PM
Stanley & Sons?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on December 06, 2013, 07:04:38 PM
Not Stanley, not Stanton

Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: D-type on December 06, 2013, 07:08:51 PM
Stanmore?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: Carnut on December 06, 2013, 07:27:51 PM
Stanford?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on December 06, 2013, 10:45:21 PM
Not Stanmore or Stanford.  7 letters
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: 4popoid on December 07, 2013, 02:00:16 AM
Messrs Stancer and Son, Spalding, Lincolnshire?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on December 07, 2013, 09:31:41 AM
Not Stancer.  The letter "c" is incorrect.

As 4popoid is one letter away from the correct name, this puzzle is
LOCKED
For his next two attempts.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: 4popoid on December 07, 2013, 12:33:08 PM
Thanks for the lock 'cuda!  I have two alternate possibilities on my list.  First I'll try: Messrs Stanyer and Son, Spalding, Lincolnshire.
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on December 07, 2013, 07:08:17 PM
Not Stanyer
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: 4popoid on December 07, 2013, 08:47:35 PM
OK, how about: Messrs Stanger and Son, Spalding, Lincolnshire?
Title: Re: WTH # 272
Post by: sixtee5cuda on December 07, 2013, 11:30:58 PM
Stanger it is!  The point goes to 4popoid.

I found the puzzle image, while researching another topic, of course.  I thought it was an interesting looking, ancient limousine.

I researched further while the puzzle was in progress.  Sadly, I didn't find another vehicle by Messrs. Stanger & Son.