Topic: Solved: Wendax 833 - Dilthey Kondor

[Wendax]

A cap is much fancier than a helmet.

For one point, please respond and identify this car, its builder and the year it was built.

[Wendax]

up

[RayTheRat]

DDR?

[Wendax]

No

[nicanary]

So it's FDR then ? I reckon that's a flat-twin BMW 500 or 750 in the front. One-off "Eigenbau" or was there more than one ?

[nicanary]

Is this car the DB which Helmut Glockler converted to BMW power in 1950 ? He finished 3rd in the West German F3 Championship in 1951.

[Wendax]

So it's FDR then ? I reckon that's a flat-twin BMW 500 or 750 in the front. One-off "Eigenbau" or was there more than one ?

If you mean West Germany when you say FDR, then yes. The "opposite" of DDR (Deutsche Demokratische Republik = German Democratic Republic = GDR) was BRD (Bundesrepublik Deutschland = Federal Republic of Germany = FRG), although back then that abbreviation was mostly used by East German officials and was not accepted in West Germany. So much for the free history lesson. 
And yes, it has a BMW engine. It is part of a small series of race cars,, but different from the other ones.

[nicanary]

It is a Condor/Kondor - a German 500cc Formula 3 car designed and built by Jose Jungbecker. He built 3 cars and then passed the company to Peter Datwyler (sorry, no umlauts on my laptop) who completed this car, which is the fourth Kondor.

My source does not provide a year, but the previous cars competed in 1949/50, and I think this one may have been about 1950/51.

[Wendax]

You are right that this is the Kondor (with initial K), built after three Condors (with initial C) have been constructed by Josef Jungbecker (he's not Spanish  ) .
You are slightly off with the year.
You are wrong with the builder. Peter Dätwyler restored this car and unearthed its history.

Locked for you.

[nicanary]

Thank you. The information I gave was from a British F3 site which has a German section, and obviously they have stated the facts incorrectly.

I have found information on a German-language site, but I have not read German text since 1969. The site agrees that there were originally three cars called Condor, and then says there was a "funfth" car (5th?) built in 1952 by von Dilthey and Gorecki at Rheydt. I am sorry if this makes no sense, but that is what I think it meant.

It confirms that the car is now in Switzerland, which makes sense, and I assume that the Peter Datwyler I referred to is related to the 1950s/60s racer Willy Datwyler. (I have just referred back to the British site, and I misunderstood the caption about the restorer and thought incorrectly that it meant he was the original driver.)

[Wendax]

Yes, this Kondor was built by Friedrich Dilthey and his mechanic Erich Gorecki, who can be seen sitting in the car. Give me the correct year and the point is yours. Still locked.

[nicanary]

1953?

[Wendax]

In between your guesses.

Meanwhile I start polishing your point.

[nicanary]

1951?

[Wendax]

My source does not provide a year, but the previous cars competed in 1949/50, and I think this one may have been about 1950/51.

1953?

In between your guesses.

Try again 

[nicanary]

I'll try 1952  (I think I mentioned this date earlier but I'm confused by the whole thing now)

[Wendax]

A well-earned point for you!

For all those who have sufficient German language capabilities there is an excellent pdf online, created by Peter Dätwyler, about the history of this very car.

[HiRich]

The confusion is that this is a second Kondor chassis (or fifth Condor, depending on your perspective). Unlike the first four, all broadly similar in shape and style, this Dilthey-built car is front-engined.

I'm not clear on the full history of the original chassis, and wonder whether this fifth car was built from one of the former, built from another car (it bears several similarities with Alfred Fegers' car) or is an original build. Chassis 4/the first Kondor was, at least a few years ago, on display at the Nürburgring Museum (distinguished by the "Kondor" on the winged nose badge).