Topic: Solved: Wendax 131 - Fiat 2800 Bertone 1943

[Wendax]

Pure elegance coupled with an odd face.

For one point, please respond and identify the car, the year and the coachbuilder.

[Wendax]

up

[als15]

Fiat 2800 with body by Bertone. One off made in 1943 for the Earl Giovanni Luraghi Lurani Cernuschi di Calvenzano.
Definitely one of my favourites.

[Wendax]

Well done, a perfect answer.

Another point for you.

[SACO]

Whatsit ? I don't know !

[Wendax]

This is Teddy Quidenus, driving his Fiat 2800 at the Internationale Österreichische Alpenfahrt in 1949

[Wendax]

It looks like the Bertone one-off made in 1943 for the Earl Giovanni Lurani Cernuschi di Calvenzano: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=16435.0

[Wendax]

The proof that it is a Fiat 2800:

[SACO]

 
Indeed, I had not thought of Bertone !

[Wendax]

Isn't it solved then?

[SACO]

Perfect !
1 point for the unknown cars ? (It would maybe be necessary to create a new puzzles area ? )

[Wendax]

I think that 1 point is just fine (not that I desperately need it  ).
Should it be merged with this one? http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=16435.0

[SACO]

Yes ,merged !
And 1 point for you !

[Wendax]

Could an admin please merge these?

[Otto Puzzell]

Merged

[RayTheRat]

An off-the-wall question about this.  Wasn't there a war going in in Europe in 1943?  Or maybe it didn't affect royalty as much as other folks? 

From what I know of WWII history, 1943 was a pretty bad year for Italy, which was invaded by US and British troops from the south and German troops from the North. 

How did they find resources to build this cool little roadster?

[als15]

In fact it is considered indeed as an exception... If not actually the only one, one of the few fuoriserie made after mid-1942, when a law restricted the motor vehicles sales to public utility (e.g. fire-brigaeds or energy providers, or private factories useful for war support only).
But of course exceptions always exsist...

[RayTheRat]

But of course exceptions always exsist...

Absolutely.  And the more money and power involved, the greater or more numerous the exceptions.

Thanks for the info.

[als15]

How did they find resources to build this cool little roadster?

Funny to see how the size perception changes on the two sides of the Ocean... In Italy it was considered huge (in particular for a roadster): based on one of the largest flaghsip cars on the market and about 5 meters long...

[SACO]

An other car ,with a different door and no chromium !

[als15]

Amazing! I never realized they were two. A two-off! 
But comparing the photos and looking at the shape between the rear wheel and the door edge it's clear that they are different.

Now I wonder who was the second lucky owner...

[RayTheRat]

How did they find resources to build this cool little roadster?

Funny to see how the size perception changes on the two sides of the Ocean... In Italy it was considered huge (in particular for a roadster): based on one of the largest flaghsip cars on the market and about 5 meters long...

It must be bigger than it appears.  My 4WD Suburban is 5.5 meters long and it's like driving an aircraft carrier; my 2010 Camaro is 4.8 meters and is still a pretty big car.  Strangely enough, the 1988 Camaro I traded in was 2 inches longer, but seemed like a much smaller car.  I think it has something to do with the 2010's smaller greenhouse.

Anyway, given the 5 meter length, the Fiat must have been huge.  It just doesn't seem like it in the photos.  It looks more like an MGA to me at first glance (3.9 meters); obviously the eye has been tricked.

[als15]

The size discussion leads to an interesting consideration...
Fiat 2800 have only been produced in about 210 units as a civil car (two series of regular Fiat limousines and naked chassis for coachbuilders) and 410 as "CMC" military version (torpedo bodied by Savio) for the army top-brass. This second had a shortned wheelbase.

Now, I'm wondering if those roadsters cannot have been based on the army SWB chassis, that would made them even more strange.

[RayTheRat]

The size discussion leads to an interesting consideration...
Fiat 2800 have only been produced in about 210 units as a civil car (two series of regular Fiat limousines and naked chassis for coachbuilders) and 410 as "CMC" military version (torpedo bodied by Savio) for the army top-brass. This second had a shortned wheelbase.

Now, I'm wondering if those roadsters cannot have been based on the army SWB chassis, that would made them even more strange.

While it might be a little bit of a brain-shock, the shorter, strengthened chassis of the CMC version would make sense for a sports car.  I don't see any 4WD-like features on the CMC, so it might just be a question of a different body and some suspension and engine tweaks to go from a Command Car to a Sports Car. 

You might want to look at that well-known resource site that starts with "W" (English language version) and look at the production numbers stated there.  They're different from what you've stated.  Given your expertise in the field, I'd tend to believe your numbers.

[als15]

In fact the CMC SWB makes indeed more sense for sportscars.
When I wrote my book about 1500 & 2800 fuoriserie I asked Fiat to access the production records to see how many chassis were delivered without body (and possibly to whom). Speaking all in all about 620 cars (my records say 622, W... 624), many in military version, would have been a reasonable and interesting job. Unfortunately they refused, afraid that I could have a scrap chassis in my courtyard and was only looking for the best number to choose to make a fake replica...