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Author Topic: Solved TGF-149: Rosengart Vivor LR4PL, 1950  (Read 32206 times)

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Offline kwgibbs

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2013, 12:57:58 PM »
La Licorne?
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Offline FrontMan

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2013, 02:55:38 PM »
Berliet, 1946?
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Offline Hiawatha

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2013, 03:18:15 PM »
Simca?
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Offline 4popoid

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2013, 03:59:53 PM »
Peugeot 203 from about 1948?
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Offline targhediferro

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2013, 04:23:11 PM »
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Offline kwgibbs

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2013, 05:00:01 PM »
Donnet?
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Offline ropat53

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2013, 05:14:30 PM »
It is a French car with a French body? Doesn't look like one but I'll try Panhard?
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Offline 4popoid

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2013, 05:22:01 PM »
Citroen?
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Offline kwgibbs

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2013, 05:34:43 PM »
Luc Court?
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Offline targhediferro

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2013, 05:55:27 PM »
I never thought it would nave lasted so long...it's a French car built in little series, entirely French.
Not Donnet, not Panhard, not Citroen, not Luc Court.
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Offline kwgibbs

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2013, 06:00:14 PM »
darmont?
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Offline ropat53

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2013, 06:08:05 PM »
Rosengart
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Offline 4popoid

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2013, 09:55:01 PM »
Hotchkiss about 1949?
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Offline targhediferro

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2013, 12:48:34 AM »
Quote from: ropat53 on July 16, 2013, 06:08:05 PM
Rosengart
Ta-da...yes, it's a Rosengart.
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Offline 4popoid

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2013, 01:17:35 AM »
Is this locked Fabrizio?  If so, and I happen to be correct, give the point to ropat53.  Is this a Rosengart Vivor from about 1950?
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Offline targhediferro

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2013, 01:40:45 AM »
No, I haven't locked it because I supposed that Ropat answer was quite a gamble, as the other ones. Now I lock for you because your answer is correct but not complete regarding to my source.
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Offline 4popoid

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2013, 01:57:46 AM »
I'm not sure what more you are looking for, but I can add that that this model, with rear side windows, was called a "break", while the same car without rear side windows was called a "light van".  Also the Rosengart Vivor was based on the LR4 model of the 1930s.
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Offline targhediferro

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2013, 03:42:30 AM »
The Vivor is actually derived from LR4, but is identified like a particular type, LR4 _ _ .  Locked for you for another guess.
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Offline 4popoid

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2013, 01:21:38 PM »
Ah, I think I have found it.  While the Vivor was advertised as "Le Break Vivor" to distinguish it from the windowless van, which was called Robor, the Vivor also carried the model designation LR 4PL.  Hopefully this model designation is what you are seeking.
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Offline targhediferro

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Re: TGF-149
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2013, 03:50:26 PM »
That's the correct name. I think that the designation Vivor Break appeared only in 1951, while in 1950 it was named LR 4PL.  I found that it was a Charbonneau design.  A point for you.
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Offline Bill Murray

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Re: Solved TGF-149: Rosengart Vivor LR4PL, 1950
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2013, 04:08:52 PM »
Just to add some information, I found a couple more photos and an article that said the vehicle/s originated at the Paris Auto Show in 1949.  Another designation was also given which may have only been for the show, "Rosengart Vivor LR4-N2".

Bill
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Cheers
Bill

Offline ropat53

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Re: Solved TGF-149: Rosengart Vivor LR4PL, 1950
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2013, 04:10:45 PM »
In the brochure below it's called Le Break and the model is on the license plate LR 4PL.
LR is from Lucien Rosengart
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Offline Allemano

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Re: Solved TGF-149: Rosengart Vivor LR4PL, 1950
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2013, 04:14:32 PM »
Isn't 'break' the general French term for caravan?
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Offline Bill Murray

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Re: Solved TGF-149: Rosengart Vivor LR4PL, 1950
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2013, 04:34:44 PM »
I think it depends on which country you are from.
A "station wagon" in US English is a "Shooting Break" in Brit English and if I remember a "Gentleman Farmers Vehicle" in Swedish.

I have always translated the French "Break" to mean a wooden or steel bodied "Station Wagon" as I know the term.

The term 'Caravan" has always meant to me a camping or travel vehicle.
Mostly, a towed trailer although I have also seen the term applied to small motorized campers.

Nowadays in my country, they call them SUVs or Crossovers and they are very boring.  No more wood sides and tailgates nor even the false plastic appliques that looked like wood that they used into the 1960's.

Here is what a true "Break/Station Wagon" should look like.

Bill
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Offline Wendax

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Re: Solved TGF-149: Rosengart Vivor LR4PL, 1950
« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2013, 04:48:37 PM »
To put some things straight: the puzzle car is a Rosengart Vivor 4 CV type LR4PL. It appeared at the Paris Salon in 1950. The break (= station wagon) shown in 1949 was this one: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=21244, which was still referred to as a Rosengart Supercinq, which had the type designation LR4N2 since its appearance at the Salon de Paris 1938. The Vivor was a commercial failure due to its outdated engine, its lousy quality and its high price. Its production was carried on until 1952, because the Ariette was available only as a sedan at first.
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