Author Topic: Solved - NEH 2736: Ford-Willys Corcel prototype - 1968  (Read 687 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40955
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Solved - NEH 2736: Ford-Willys Corcel prototype - 1968
« on: June 13, 2013, 07:55:27 AM »
Identify what this car is correctly for 1 point:

ANYONE FOUND GIVING ANSWERS OBTAINED BY USING GOOGLE SEARCH BY IMAGE MAY BE BANNED FOR AN INDETERMINATE PERIOD!
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline ratapouet

  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • Country: fr
  • Puzzle Points 12
  • AutoPuzzles
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2013, 03:40:14 PM »
Ford Corcel

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40955
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2013, 05:17:04 AM »
Ford Corcel

You're on the right track but for the point I need to know exactly what this particular car is..
Locked for you to look into it further.
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline gutofuhr

  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Puzzle Points 0
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2013, 10:37:37 AM »
<<Post removed>>
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 01:47:20 PM by Carnut »

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40955
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2013, 01:52:03 PM »
Welcome back to AutoPuzzles gutofuhr and thanks for your post.

However, we have a system here of locking puzzles if the answer given is close and nearly correct but not quite enough for the point.  Due to the time differences across the world it can be some time before the puzzler is able to give a reply so we usually give 24 or 48 hours, to give him time to delve further into the puzzle and find the full and correct answer, which is always needed to gain the point.

In this case my puzzle is locked for ratapouet as mentioned in my reply to his post, so that means no-one else is permitted to answer until he has done so; this is not a physical lock but simply a bar to anyone answering, which must be observed.

If ratapouet fails to answer I will limit the time this puzzle is locked for and will inform in the thread when the lock will be lifted.

Otherwise, I hope you enjoy AutoPuzzles - the home of where things are rarely quite what they seem to be!

If it's any consolation the answer you gave was very much in the right direction but still didn't answer the questions enough for a point..
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40955
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2013, 06:10:43 AM »
Ford Corcel

You're on the right track but for the point I need to know exactly what this particular car is..
Locked for you to look into it further.

You've had this locked for 5 days now ratapouet so I'm only going to give you another 24 hours then it will be unlocked, but will lock it then for Gutofuhr for 24 hours as his post was largely correct (although not enough for the point..)
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40955
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2013, 05:56:31 AM »
ratapouet has had this locked for long enough and not taken advantage so it's now gutofuhr's turn for a day or so.
Locked for him for 24 hours but if he doesn't reply (and not sure he's a frequent visitor here) this will be moved up to the Experts for them to score the point..
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40955
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2013, 05:51:04 AM »
Well, Gutofuhr didn't want this one either (despite having posted just about the right answer once whilst it was locked for ratapouet..) so up it goes to the Experts for them to sort out..
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline Hiawatha

  • Professional
  • *
  • Posts: 2101
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 530
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2013, 06:41:52 AM »
1968 Ford Corcel Sedan 4 door 1.3?

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40955
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2013, 07:35:29 AM »
1968 Ford Corcel Sedan 4 door 1.3?

As I said to ratapouet, you're on the right track, but that's not exactly what this particular car is.
So that hasn't really moved the game on - you still need to find it
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline Hiawatha

  • Professional
  • *
  • Posts: 2101
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 530
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2013, 07:41:40 AM »
Pre production prototype, in the Ford Wyllis studio?

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40955
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2013, 07:43:23 AM »
Pre production prototype, in the Ford Wyllis studio?

That does move the game on a bit, as it is a Ford-Willys pre-production prototype for the Corcel.
But at this stage it still wasn't officially a Corcel despite carrying Corcel badging; so what was it?

Locked for you!
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 07:52:56 AM by Carnut »
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline Hiawatha

  • Professional
  • *
  • Posts: 2101
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 530
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2013, 07:48:33 AM »
M project?

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40955
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2013, 07:53:16 AM »
M project?

Not that..
It was a name other than Corcel.
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline wingroad

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 919
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 108
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2013, 09:36:34 AM »
Torino rings a bell somewhere

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40955
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2013, 10:02:01 AM »
Torino rings a bell somewhere

It wasn't Torino (that was the IKA) but I'm keeping this puzzle locked for Hiawatha for the moment since he's so close..
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline Hiawatha

  • Professional
  • *
  • Posts: 2101
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 530
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2013, 10:30:15 AM »
Please unlock..no luck so far.

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40955
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2013, 11:55:29 AM »
Please unlock..no luck so far.

OK, let's see if someone else can come up with the name it was known by internally at the time.
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline Hiawatha

  • Professional
  • *
  • Posts: 2101
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 530
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2013, 03:11:05 PM »
I assume it's not what's on the rear licence plate?

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40955
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2013, 03:40:33 PM »
I assume it's not what's on the rear licence plate?

I can't remember what was on the rear licence plate, but seem to recall it was just 2 letters and 2 numbers, in which case, No.
But it's on my other computer so I'll check tomorrow.
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline ropat53

  • Master
  • *
  • Posts: 4469
  • Country: ar
  • Puzzle Points 750
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2013, 04:34:33 PM »
I assume it's not what's on the rear licence plate?
I think Hiawatha is right I found that the Ford project name was WO X7 and that's what's on the rear license plate.
The original project was between Willys and Renault, when Ford took over Willys do Brasil they wanted to make a proper Ford and the Cortina was considered, but decided on the project "M" that in France became the Renault 12. I also found the name Charger but it's a miss-translation of Corcel.

Offline Carnut

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 40955
  • Country: gb
  • Puzzle Points 423
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2013, 06:11:29 PM »
I see.
On the site I took the picture from they said that the Corcel name was taped over (which it is in the picture you have posted ropat53) as at that stage the car was still going under the name Charger, and this car was one of 10 pre-production prototypes.  There was no indication there that it was a translation of anything and they mentioned both names in connection with the car. 

I'll have to see if I can dig into it a bit further to find out the truth.
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline ropat53

  • Master
  • *
  • Posts: 4469
  • Country: ar
  • Puzzle Points 750
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2013, 09:22:15 PM »
If you search Ford Corcel in Portuguese Wikipedia the first paragraph reads:

"Projeto inicial[editar]
Quando a Ford adquiriu o controle acionário da Willys Overland do Brasil em 1967, essa última estava desenvolvendo um projeto em parceria com a Renault, o projeto "M". Esse projeto deu origem ao Renault 12 na França e, com uma carroceria diferente, ao Corcel no Brasil."

Now if you translate the page, this same paragraph it reads:
"Initial design [ edit ]
When Ford acquired a controlling interest in Willys Overland do Brazil in 1967, the latter was developing a project in partnership with Renault , the project "M". This project led to the Renault 12 in France, and with a body different, the Charger in Brazil."
This is translating the page, not clicking English version of Wikipedia.

I found the German Wikipedia says:
"Der Ford Corcel/ Ford Charger war ein vom brasilianischen Ableger der Ford Motor Company von 1968 bis 1986 hergestelltes Modell der Mittelklasse mit Frontantrieb."

But the English Wikipedia says:
"The Ford Corcel ("stallion" in Portuguese) is a car which was sold by the Ford Motor Company in Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, and Venezuela. It was also assembled in Venezuela (along with the Del Rey)"

I have been unable to find any site in Portuguese that mentions Ford Charger, related to the Ford Corcel.

I'm perfectly aware that Wikipedia is not always reliable, but I'm now even more convinced that it was never called Charger, this name is an Internet miss-translation.

Offline ropat53

  • Master
  • *
  • Posts: 4469
  • Country: ar
  • Puzzle Points 750
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2013, 10:29:49 PM »
This is from a well know Brazilian site:

"Outro detalhe interessante é que o escrito "Corcel" era previsto para ser na lateral (riscado à caneta na imagem abaixo) e o escrito "FORD" vinha na traseira, mas no lado direito do carro. Quando colocado em produção, o escrito "FORD" passou a ser no centro da tampa traseira e o mesmo escrito "Corcel" na parte direita da traseira do carro.
Mas isso não é tudo! Mais interessante que o próprio Corcel em fase final de gestação, essas fotos da intimidade Ford-Willys mostram uma outra coisa muito, mas muito mais interessante! Eu acho que vocês logo irão descobrir, mas eu só conto amanhã!!"

And this is the translated version:

"And also note that even though the model was not wearing Luxury stops in bumpers and no license plate light on the rear bumper! Another interesting detail is that the writing "Charger" was set to be on the side (the pen scratched in the picture below ) and writing "FORD" in coming back, but on the right side of the car. When put into production, writing "FORD" became the center of the back cover and it says "Charger" on the right rear of the car. But that's not all! More interesting than the actual Charger in late pregnancy, these intimate photos of Willys-Ford show something else too, but much more interesting! I think you will soon find out, but I only tell tomorrow!"

The above paragraph also explains, very hard to understand the English translation, why the Corcel script on the side has been crossed, it is because they decided to place it on the right side of the boot lid and move the Ford script to the center.

Offline Hiawatha

  • Professional
  • *
  • Posts: 2101
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 530
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: NEH 2736
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2013, 02:39:34 AM »
Ropat,thank you for your input.I spent a long time on Portuguese Wikipedia and the Brazilian site you mention.My Portuguese is rusty at best but being Italian I thought I understood nearly everything.
Luciano