Topic: Solved - MJW #1120 - II Prix de Léman 1949 at Le Bléchenette, Lausanne

[richard fridd]

Lausanne .27/28 August  1949 Prix du Leman formule 2. . 1 Cooper T9 JAP Stirling Moss, 2 Ferrari 166 Felice Bonetto, 3 Simca Gordini T11 Rudolph Fischer, 8 AFM Hans Stuck, 6 OSCA MT4 Dorino Serafini, 11 Ferrari 166 Mario Tadini, 4 Simca Gordini T15 Raymond Sommer, 5 Simca Gordini T15 Maurice Trintignant??

[rosenbergm]

If it is the formula 2 race held at Lausanne on August 27/28 1949 here is what I found of course give Richard his points here is wha I found


Fin   St   Driver   #   Owner   Car   Laps   Money   Status   Laps Led
1      1      Raymond Sommer      2      Equipe Gordini      Simca-Gordini T15     60           running     
2           Robert Manzon      6      Equipe Gordini      Simca-Gordini T15     60           running     
3           Maurice Trintignant      4      Equipe Gordini      Simca-Gordini T11     60           running     
4           Hans Stuck      22      Hans Stuck      AFM 1/BMW     59           running     
5           Felice Bonetto      12      Scuderia Ferrari      Ferrari 166C     58           running     
6           Eugène Martin      8      Equipe Gordini      Simca-Gordini T11     56           running     
7           Alexander Orley      28      Equipe Belge      Veritas Monoposto/BMW     54           running     
8           André Canonica      36      André Canonica      Cisitalia D46/Fiat     54           running     
9           John Heath      24      HW Motors      Alta     48           running     
10           Claude Bernheim      34      Claude Bernheim      Cisitalia D46/Fiat     44           did not finish     
11           Mario Tadini      14      Scuderia Ferrari      Ferrari 166C     24           did not finish     
12           Stirling Moss      26      Alfred Moss      Cooper T9/JAP     20           did not finish     
13           Dorino Serafini      18      Dorino Serafini      Osca     15           did not finish     
14           Ferdinando Righetti      16      Ferdinando Righetti      Stanguellini/Fiat     14           did not finish     
15           Humbert Joly      38      Humbert Joly      Cisitalia D46/Fiat                did not finish     

[rosenbergm]

I found more info

Pos   Cla.   #   Driver, Nationality   Entrant   Car - Engine   Time, Laps   Reason Out
1   1   2   Raymond Sommer, F   Equipe Gordini   Simca-Gordini T15   1:47'23.0"   
2   2   6   Robert Manzon, F   Equipe Gordini   Simca-Gordini T15   1:47'28.3"   
3   3   4   Maurice Trintignant, F   Equipe Gordini   Simca-Gordini T11   1:48'45.6"   
4   4   22   Hans Stuck, D/A   Hans Stuck   AFM 1 - BMW   59   
5   5   12   Felice Bonetto, I   Scuderia Ferrari   Ferrari 166C   58   
6   6   8   Eugene Martin, F   Equipe Gordini   Simca-Gordini T11   56   
7   7   28   "Orley" (Alexander Todd), USA   Equipe Belge   Orley Spl (Veritas Monoposto) - BMW   54   
8   8   36   André Canonica, CH   André Canonica   Cisitalia D46 - Fiat   54   
9   9   24   John Heath, GB   HW Motors   Alta   48   
                            
10   DNF   34   Claude Bernheim, CH   Claude Bernheim   Cisitalia D46 - Fiat   44   
11   DNF   14   Mario Tadini, I   Scuderia Ferrari   Ferrari 166C   24   
12   DNF   26   Stirling Moss, GB   Alfred Moss   Cooper T9 - JAP   20   
13   DNF   18   Dorino Serafini, I   Dorino Serafini   Osca   15   
14   DNF   16   Ferdinando Righetti, I   Ferdinando Righetti   Stanguellini - Fiat   14   
15   DNF   38   Humbert Joly, CH   Humbert Joly   Cisitalia D46 - Fiat   0   
                            
16   DNA   32   Alfred Dattner, CH   Alfred Dattner   Simca-Gordini T11       
17   DNA   40   Max de Terra, CH   Max de Terra   Cisitalia D46 - Fiat       
18   DNA   42   Hans Jäger   Hans Jäger   Cisitalia D46 - Fiat       
19   DNA   44   Walter Wüst, CH   Walter Wüst   Cisitalia D46 - Fiat       
20   DNA   46   Pierre Nessi   Pierre Nessi   Serval - Vincent/HRD       
21   DNA   48   Louis Chiron, MC   Louis Chiron   -       

[richard fridd]

7 Simca Gordini Robert Manzon?

[richard fridd]

9 Simca Gordini T15S Eugene Martin?

[woodinsight]

Richard Fridd and rosenbergm have been busy with this one!

You're going to have to wait until this evening until I go through your replies but in the meantime I'll LOCK it for richard fridd as he has  answered the question regarding the race and identified several puzzle numbers against specific cars.

rosenbergm, as you have also discovered the source of the answers I suggest you wait until I've answered richard fridd and reveal some correct answers before you continue guessing.....

Until this evening then......  

[richard fridd]

10 Cisitalia D46/48 Claude Bernheim?

[woodinsight]

Here's a larger photo without the numbers to help with identification -

[richard fridd]

13 HW Alta John Heath?

[woodinsight]

Okay as it's not fair that richard is still posting answers whilst I haven't had time to answer yet I'll open it again for others in the meantime

[richard fridd]

14 Cisitalia D46 Humbert Joly, 15 Cisitalia D46 Andre Canonica?

[richard fridd]

12 Stanguellini 1500 Nando Righetti, and 16 Veritas Meteor driven by Orley. My proof of 16 is on page 577 of Adriano Cimarosti's "Grand Prix Suisse" in the "grille de depart" section at the top of the page- I wish I had found that earlier!

[richard fridd]

So front row Sommer Bonetto Moss, row 2 Fischer Stuck, row 3 Trintignant Serafini Tadini, row 4 Martin Heath, row 5 Bernheim Manzon Righetti, row 6 Joly Canonica and Orley at the back with a qualifying time of 2'01,4" compared with the pole time of 1'46,3"

[woodinsight]

Lausanne .27/28 August  1949 Prix du Leman formule 2. . 1 Cooper T9 JAP Stirling Moss, 2 Ferrari 166 Felice Bonetto, 3 Simca Gordini T11 Rudolph Fischer, 8 AFM Hans Stuck, 6 OSCA MT4 Dorino Serafini, 11 Ferrari 166 Mario Tadini, 4 Simca Gordini T15 Raymond Sommer, 5 Simca Gordini T15 Maurice Trintignant??

You are correct although I have this particular race taking place on the 27th August 1949 and entitled II Prix de Léman held at Le Bléchenette, Lausanne. The II Prix refers to the Formula 2 or Formula B that it was loosely termed at that time.

My source doesn't appear infallible however as it states that the race was held on 7th September 1949. I believe 27th August is the correct date. So richard fridd takes the first point for the event.

Now on to the cars -

No. 1 is Stirling Moss - Cooper T9 JAP (No.26) solved by richard fridd
No. 2 is Felice Bonetto - Ferrari 166C (No.12) solved by richard fridd
No. 3  - is a mystery at the moment as I have no trace of Rudi Fischer or of a car No.30....
No. 4 is Raymond Sommer - Simca-Gordini T15 (No.2) solved by richard fridd
No. 5 is Maurice Trintignant - Simca-Gordini T15 (No.5) solved by richard fridd
No. 6 is Dorino Serafini - Osca (No.18) solved by richard fridd
No. 7 is ......
No. 8 is ......
No. 9 is Eugene Martin - Simca-Gordini T11 (No.eight) solved by richard fridd
No.10 is Claude Bernheim  -Cisitalia D46 Fiat (No.34) solved by richard fridd
No.11 is Mario Tadini - Ferrari 166C (No.12) solved by richard fridd
No.12 is......
No.13 is John Heath - HW Alta (No.24) solved by richard fridd
No.14 is Humbert Joly - Cisitalia D46 Fiat - solved by richard fridd
No.15 is Andre Canonica - Cisitalia D46 Fiat - solved by richard fridd
No.16 is......

Okay it would appear that Richard has virtually solved this puzzle but I'm awaiting some confirmation (visual) on his source to complete a few anomalies.
Cars 7/8 are mixed up probably due to my amateurish numbering.... so that has to be corrected.
Still not sure about Nos.12 & 16 and will await further confirmation on that.....

I'll also award a point to rosenbergm for identifying Switzerland as the country where the event was held.

I'll award points when I have cleared up the anomalies.

[richard fridd]

Thanks for the puzzle and I hope you have  received my email of the starting grid details from the Grand Prix Suisse book which I have resent. If not please let me know so that I can I can resend again

[richard fridd]

Looking at the photo is that number 30 displayed  on the far right car on the front row? Although my Blackberry screen is small!

[richard fridd]

"Orley" Alexander Todd is als mentioned in reply number 27 I see

[richard fridd]

"Orley" Alexander Todd is als mentioned in reply number 27 I see

[Carnut]

Thanks for the puzzle and I hope you have  received my email of the starting grid details from the Grand Prix Suisse book which I have resent. If not please let me know so that I can I can resend again

I hope you mean you've re-sent it rather than you resent it....!

[woodinsight]

Thanks for the puzzle and I hope you have  received my email of the starting grid details from the Grand Prix Suisse book which I have resent. If not please let me know so that I can I can resend again

PM sent

[richard fridd]

Email re-sent to the address supplied.

[woodinsight]

Solution/progress tomorrow......

[richard fridd]

Please swap 7+8 to conclude this fantastic puzzle!

[woodinsight]

Please accept my apologies to everyone who has been patiently waiting for the results of this puzzle.

It has taken some time due to the fact that my source for the results of this event were inaccurate and thanks to Richard Fridd who provided me with proof of the true situation.
My photo (from the Orsini/Zagari history on OSCA) did not tie up with the results that rosenbergm posted earlier.

Now I've managed to sort it out with the following solution - each car and the event solved by richard fridd (with his recent adjustments taken in to consideration).

Puzzle no. - Driver - Car - Finishing position - Race no.

No. 1 is Stirling Moss - Cooper T9 JAP - DNF - (#26)
No. 2 is Felice Bonetto - Ferrari 166C - 5th - (#12)
No. 3 is Rudi Fischer - Simca-Gordini T11 - DNF - (#30)
No. 4 is Raymond Sommer - Simca-Gordini T15 - 1st - (#2)
No. 5 is Maurice Trintignant - Simca-Gordini T15 - 3rd - (#5)
No. 6 is Dorino Serafini - Osca - DNF - (#18)
No. 7 is Hans Stuck - AFM-BMW - 4th - (#22)
No. 8 is Robert Manzon - Simca-Gordini T15 - 2nd - (#6)
No. 9 is Eugene Martin - Simca-Gordini T11 Sports - 6th - (#8)
No.10 is Claude Bernheim - Cisitalia D46 Fiat - DNF - (#34)
No.11 is Mario Tadini - Ferrari 166C - DNF - (#14)
No.12 is Ferdinando Righetti - Stanguellini-Fiat - DNF - (#16)
No.13 is John Heath - HW-Alta - 9th - (#24)
No.14 is Humbert Joly - Cisitalia D46 Fiat - DNF - (#38)
No.15 is Andre Canonica - Cisitalia D46 Fiat - 8th - (#36)
No.16 is "Orley" (Alexander Todd) - Veritas Meteor - 7th - (#28)

So congratulations Richard, you've just earned 17 points (16 points for the cars and one for the event) which now promotes you to Expert status. Your reference source was 'spot on'!
I'm also awarding 2 points to rosenbergm as he initially guessed the event was in Switzerland and for posting the same list of cars I had initially. Well done to you too.

Far from being put off by the puzzle being quickly solved in the rookie section, I intend to post some more similar puzzles in the future......

[Iluvatar]