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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2013 => Topic started by: Djetset on April 15, 2013, 05:06:39 PM

Title: SOLVED: Djetset #639 - Pilgrim Rapier (Hawthorn prototype)
Post by: Djetset on April 15, 2013, 05:06:39 PM
Forgive the poor-quality photo, but what is the make and model name of this car for a point?
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Djetset on April 23, 2013, 05:16:22 PM
Up to the Experts.
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: nicanary on April 23, 2013, 05:39:12 PM
Is it LHD or RHD or are there two steering wheels ?
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Djetset on April 23, 2013, 06:10:30 PM
It could be either, but only one steering wheel!
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Zerk on April 25, 2013, 08:07:34 AM
Jaguar project?
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: nicanary on April 25, 2013, 10:59:10 AM
Is it a Ginetta Fairlite ?
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Djetset on April 25, 2013, 02:25:51 PM
No Jaguar or Ginetta connections here.
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: nicanary on April 26, 2013, 06:49:19 AM
Prototype Berkeley Bandit ?
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Djetset on April 26, 2013, 07:01:30 AM
Not a Berkeley.
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Djetset on May 14, 2013, 01:43:28 PM
Up to the Pros...
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Carnut on May 14, 2013, 06:57:19 PM
Is it British?
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Djetset on May 15, 2013, 06:27:10 AM
By Jove, it is terribly British!
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Carnut on May 15, 2013, 07:07:07 AM
Martin?
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Djetset on May 15, 2013, 10:19:04 AM
Not a Martin.
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: kwgibbs on May 15, 2013, 05:25:11 PM
vale?
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Carnut on May 15, 2013, 07:18:43 PM
BMC-based?
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Djetset on May 16, 2013, 04:48:58 AM
Not a Vale, but sort of BMC (as in BL) based.
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Carnut on May 16, 2013, 10:28:30 AM
MGB-based then?
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Djetset on May 16, 2013, 10:33:55 AM
Can be MGB-based, along with related other vehicles (nothing like keeping it cryptic hey!) ;)
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Carnut on May 16, 2013, 10:35:58 AM
Can be MGB-based, along with related other vehicles (nothing like keeping it cryptic hey!) ;)

Related to MGB?  You mean Morris Oxfords and their ilk?
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Djetset on May 16, 2013, 10:39:47 AM
Indeed a Morris (happy 100th birthday!) but younger than an Oxford  ;)
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: nicanary on May 16, 2013, 10:57:17 AM
Indeed a Morris (happy 100th birthday!) but younger than an Oxford  ;)

Younger? I was thinking the car looked around 1959/60 in style !

So it has a transverse engine then? Mini based?
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Djetset on May 16, 2013, 11:48:51 AM
Not a transverse engine, and the car is younger than 1959/60.
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Carnut on May 16, 2013, 01:26:02 PM
The illustrious Marina?
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Djetset on May 16, 2013, 01:29:09 PM
Yes, based on the wonderous Morris Marina!  So, what's the car called?
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Carnut on May 17, 2013, 05:16:28 AM
Pilgrim?
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Djetset on May 17, 2013, 08:12:27 AM
Ah, now we're getting somewhere!  It is a Pilgrim, so now locked to you for the correct model name.
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Carnut on May 17, 2013, 08:41:55 AM
Ah, now we're getting somewhere!  It is a Pilgrim, so now locked to you for the correct model name.

Looks like a Pilgrim Hawthorn.
Perhaps it's an early prototype for it?
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Djetset on May 17, 2013, 09:08:09 AM
It is an early Pilgrim Hawthorn prototype, which means that it has a different model name, so remains locked t you.
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Carnut on May 17, 2013, 10:26:27 AM
It is an early Pilgrim Hawthorn prototype, which means that it has a different model name, so remains locked t you.

Hmmm..

Well, Pilgrim originally wanted to call this model Phantom, but Rolls-Royce were not impressed..
So they changed their ideas to Swift, whereupon Suzuki took exception!
So they settled on the name Hawthorn, but in fact all models made (10 Mk1 and 90 Mk IIs) AND the original prototype were all named Hawthorn!  No prototype was made using any other name; this I have on the very top authority!
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Djetset on May 17, 2013, 10:31:11 AM
Sorry Carnut, all mostly true, but the first examples did go by another name (that you've not listed) and I have the evidence next to my laptop!  So, still locked to you...
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Carnut on May 17, 2013, 10:43:07 AM
Sorry Carnut, all mostly true, but the first examples did go by another name (that you've not listed) and I have the evidence next to my laptop!  So, still locked to you...

Noted, but that info may not be right!
I actually spoke to Den Tanner who was the owner of Pilgrim and designed the cars.
It was he who told me 100 cars were made in addition to the prototype, the Mk Is and IIs I listed earlier.
He said that your information can't be right as no other name was used!
He was insistent that all cars made, including the prototype, were named the Hawthorn.
You can ring him yourself to check if you like, I can PM you his phone number!
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Djetset on May 17, 2013, 10:57:26 AM
PM sent, but I do have a brochure with its original name, which I will scan in once solved  ;)
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Carnut on May 17, 2013, 12:40:12 PM
PM sent, but I do have a brochure with its original name, which I will scan in once solved  ;)

OK, but I took it up once more.
Mr Tanner says the picture in your puzzle is of the plug for the Hawthorn.  No other name, so I don't think I'm going to be able to find one.
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Carnut on May 17, 2013, 01:15:37 PM
Mr Tanner didn't really want to answer any more questions, but I believe I've come up with a name that I think is associated with this car: Rapier?
Title: Re: Djetset #639
Post by: Djetset on May 17, 2013, 01:33:52 PM
Ah ha, Rapier is it.  Another point to you, and a scan of the Pilgrim Rapier brochure to follow.  Watch the British motoring press for more news of Mr Tanner very soon, as he will not be involved with cars for a while! :D

Here's a poor-quality image of the Pilgrim Rapier brochure.
Title: Re: SOLVED: Djetset #639 - Pilgrim Rapier (Hawthorn prototype)
Post by: Carnut on May 22, 2013, 02:14:13 PM
Thanks for that. Very interesting.

I sent Den Tanner a copy of your picture and asked him about the background to the name and he replied as follows:

"As I said, the picture shows the plug (made from literally a ton of body filler).

Like an unborn baby in the womb, its parents discussed various names for it as it was developing. I'd forgotten that Rapier was even in the frame at one (very early) stage.

By the time the body mould was made the vehicle was named Hawthorn."

So there you have it from the horse's mouth so to speak!