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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2013 => Topic started by: Djetset on May 02, 2013, 04:32:27 PM

Title: SOLVED: Djetset #638 - CADV AC Ace (from Venezula)
Post by: Djetset on May 02, 2013, 04:32:27 PM
Three bits of information needed here to earn a point!

So, what is the make of the car?, what is the car based on?, and which country was it built in?  The correct answer is required for all three elements please to gain the point.
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on May 14, 2013, 01:01:29 PM
The Rookies must all be out of town, so up to the Experts...
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: mekubb on May 14, 2013, 04:29:27 PM
Italian base and body ?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on May 14, 2013, 04:54:02 PM
Not an Italian base nor an Italiain body!
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Mazdafreak on May 14, 2013, 06:14:10 PM
Wouldn't be some sort of Berkeley Roadster, would it?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on May 14, 2013, 06:16:09 PM
Sorry, not a Berkeley.
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: mekubb on May 17, 2013, 04:57:57 PM
American ?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on May 20, 2013, 02:00:36 PM
Not American.
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on May 27, 2013, 03:55:50 PM
Easy pickings for the Pros.  Remember, I need the correct answer to all three of my original questions to gain that vital point!
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Arunas on June 02, 2013, 05:46:23 AM
British?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: mekubb on June 02, 2013, 07:35:18 AM
Argentina ?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: dzima1985 on June 02, 2013, 10:32:30 AM
Lazzarino Spider?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 02, 2013, 12:06:42 PM
Not from Argentina and not a Lazzarino Spider, but there is a British connection.
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: ropat53 on June 02, 2013, 06:01:41 PM
Holland?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 03, 2013, 07:40:25 AM
Not Dutch.
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: dzima1985 on June 03, 2013, 11:25:40 AM
.. but not from Europe?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 03, 2013, 01:20:30 PM
Yes, not from Europe.
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: pnegyesi on June 03, 2013, 01:21:59 PM
From South Africa?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 03, 2013, 01:23:27 PM
Not from South Africa.
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: dzima1985 on June 03, 2013, 01:29:27 PM
South America (I like these cars!)?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 03, 2013, 01:30:19 PM
Yes, it is from South America.
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: dzima1985 on June 03, 2013, 01:33:41 PM
FB Sport by Francesco Bernardy?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 03, 2013, 01:39:24 PM
Not an FB Sport.
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 03, 2013, 02:47:37 PM
Nestor Salerno's ASA?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 03, 2013, 02:50:25 PM
Not an ASA. 

I thought this one was quite easy, but clearly it is not!
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 03, 2013, 02:51:01 PM
Helguero?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 03, 2013, 02:52:57 PM
Not Helguero.
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 03, 2013, 02:53:25 PM
A known name, like Bucci?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 03, 2013, 02:54:50 PM
Not widely known, so not Bucci.
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 03, 2013, 03:00:04 PM
already featured here like Scalabroni?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 03, 2013, 03:05:12 PM
I don't think so, as I couldn't find it using the search function (although I know that this has not been working very well of late). 

Talking of recent changes to AP, is anyone else having problems with all the photos now appearing mis-shapen and stretched?  Maybe it's just my PC!
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Carnut on June 03, 2013, 03:22:26 PM
Talking of recent changes to AP, is anyone else having problems with all the photos now appearing mis-shaped and stretched?  Maybe it's my PC!

Yes, quite a few of us have including me.

On your toolbar right at the top have you got a button next to the "Refresh" arrows button marked "Compatability View"?  If you have click on it and it makes the pictures compatible with older hardware.  It worked for me!
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: mekubb on June 03, 2013, 03:28:52 PM
Mexico ?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 03, 2013, 04:45:00 PM
Thank you Carnut; I just tried 'Compatability View' and it sorted the photograph problem out instantly.  :)

Oh, and sorry Mekubb, but this car is not from Mexico.
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 03, 2013, 04:46:46 PM
Argentina?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 03, 2013, 04:51:08 PM
Sorry PJ, but Mekupp had already suggested Argentina earlier, and it is not from there.
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 03, 2013, 04:57:48 PM
Ouch..Brazil?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 03, 2013, 05:05:04 PM
Double Ouch: not Brazil!!
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Arunas on June 03, 2013, 11:40:59 PM
From Uruguay?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 04, 2013, 06:24:14 AM
Not Uruguay.
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Carnut on June 04, 2013, 07:04:10 AM
Venezuela?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: dzima1985 on June 04, 2013, 07:06:52 AM
Republic of Chile?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 04, 2013, 07:09:00 AM
Not Chile, but it is from Venzuela, so now locked to Carnut until your next reply.
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Carnut on June 04, 2013, 11:16:10 AM
Not Chile, but it is from Venzuela, so now locked to Carnut until your next reply.

Thanks.
I'm sure you said somewhere this one is easy..
After Googling the entire afternoon away look for Venezuelan racing cars I gave up that tack and concentrated instead on European cars which might have been bodied out there, as it surely was based on something from Europe.

Of all places I found on the AC Owners' Club site that an Ace Bristol was sent out to Venezuela straight from the factory in 1956, but I assume as a normal AC Ace.  I can't find out who put this body on but then you didn't ask for that, so I figure this might be it; it looks somewhat like it (and that badge could say 'AC' on it)!:

Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 04, 2013, 11:21:09 AM
Pleased to see that you have had a productive afternoon Carnut!  It is indeed based on an AC Ace, so you now have two of the three vital components to be awarded a point. 

So, remaining locked to you, what is the make of this car (one which I have known of for years incidentially, as it has been featured in a number of magazines globally for the past 30+ years, and has also appeared at Goodwood; hence me thinking it would be easy).
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Carnut on June 04, 2013, 12:01:46 PM
So you're telling me it's not an AC?

Strange, as now I've identified it I've found some very nice pictures of the restored car (including your puzzle photo) on a German AC website, and amongst all the photos of the finished car are its chassis plate which identifies this car as an AC Ace Bristol built by AC Cars Ltd., S/N BEX 148 and Engine Number 3289!  There is also a picture of its Venezuelan licence plate which shows it as MCZ-653 and some magazine reports of the car being driven in races by an Oscar Lipi and an R. Rivera.  The car is always described as an AC Ace Bristol!

I've tried to Google the chassis number and to find its appearance at Goodwood but with blank results.

I will therefore have to bow out of this one and let someone else take the point for my hours of searching...!

Here is another (slightly better) copy of your puzzle photo from that website showing what looks very much to me like an AC badge...
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Carnut on June 04, 2013, 12:04:45 PM
I have no idea why these photos only appear as thumbnails.
You can click on the caption and it will open for you in a picture viewer.


Edit:  It all works fine now!  Brilliant!
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Carnut on June 04, 2013, 12:16:22 PM
I did find the following on an AC forum in which the thread was entitled "Mystery AC Ace":

QUOTE
The Ace registrars of the AC Owners Club (ACOC) will be grateful if anyone can identify this long bootlid (trunklid) Ace or Ace Bristol that appeared at a show in Georgia in 2006 described as having Venezuela racing history - this to help with ongoing research of Aces in competition.
The long lid makes it an early (spring 1957 or earlier) car.
This to follow the 3 articles in ACtion (the ACOC club magazine) focusing on the Venezuela connection - cars imported and raced in Venezuela and even in Colombia.
The mystery question was already posted on the ACOC forum but unfortunately no information has come up yet.
Obviously the car has undergone some modifications that are Cobra inspired. Even though the engine isn't shown it is very probably a V8.
Thanks a lot for anyone who can shed some light on this car.
Below you will find the link to the original ACOC forum thread with the pictures in the original size.
These pics are also to be found on the net in several places.
UNQUOTE

The car is pictured below and I think that badge is a Cobra.  I'm not sure whether this is the same car though which had reverted to an AC front and then perhaps returned later to its modified front when restored or whether it's a different car altogether.
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 04, 2013, 12:38:03 PM
As I said, it is based on an AC Ace, but modified by another company (in Venezuela), in the same way let's say as a Crayford Cortina was based on a Ford, but known as a Crayford  ;) 
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: nicanary on June 04, 2013, 03:27:34 PM
I've been following this thread with mild interest. Juan "Jack" Fernandez was a very energetic agent for AC in Venezuala - his name pops up everywhere and I've found at least three cars from 1956/57 which he was involved with - BEX Nos. 148,155 and 235. They all seem to have been raced and then disappeared into the backwaters of US club racing.

As Carnut says, this car is now configured as a period AC-Bristol racer, complete with "Le Mans"-style screen and cowled radiator intake. Was it once known as a "Fernandez" ?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 05, 2013, 05:24:19 AM
Sorry, but not a Fernandez. :-\
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: nicanary on June 05, 2013, 05:28:41 AM
One of his cars was found in a junkyard with the name "Chivera" on it. I believe that translated from Spanish this means "goatee beard" (!?). Is this what you're looking for? (Just like Lionel Ritchie)
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 05, 2013, 06:20:20 AM
I'd be 'dancing on the ceiling' if it was called Chivera, but sadly it is not!
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: nicanary on June 05, 2013, 06:29:14 AM
I'd be 'dancing on the ceiling' if it was called Chivera, but sadly it is not!

I'll be researching this "All night long".
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 05, 2013, 06:37:13 AM
 :lmao:
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Carnut on June 05, 2013, 12:05:28 PM
3 AC Ace Bristols were raced in the Venezuela GP in November 1957, entered by Equipo C.A.D.V., including one by Droullers/Fernandez (Jack Fernandez was the Caracas-based AC importer).

Although I haven't been able to find out exactly what CADV stands for (I'm working on it!) I believe it was an organisation that built or modified cars as well as racing them.

So, anything to do with CADV?
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: Djetset on June 05, 2013, 01:24:28 PM
Well done Carnut, it was worth the perseverance!  This AC Ace was indeed modied by CADV in Venezula.  I kdon't know much more about CADV, apart from the fact that they also raced and modified a handful of other cars, including some 1950s Ferraris and Maseratis it seems.  Below is the CADV badge that adorns the bonnet (hood) of this rather attracrive Ace.
Title: Re: Djetset #638
Post by: ropat53 on June 05, 2013, 01:40:37 PM
Is this the car that belonged to Renny Ottolina a Venezuelan-born producer and entertainer who had Karl Pentz a German born panel beater modify the body?
Is Pentz the name you are looking for?

One of his cars was found in a junkyard with the name "Chivera" on it. I believe that translated from Spanish this means "goatee beard" (!?). Is this what you're looking for? (Just like Lionel Ritchie)

"Chivera 905" was the name of the junkyard that owned/racer the car at one time. Chivera is the name they give junkyards in Venezuela and 905 was the meters above sea level where that junkyard was.
Title: Re: SOLVED: Djetset #638 - CADV AC Ace (from Venezula)
Post by: Djetset on June 05, 2013, 01:47:37 PM
Sorry Ropat53, but too late as it has alrfeady been resolved as the CADV Ace.  I'm not sure if Pedntz has any connections with this car.
Title: Re: SOLVED: Djetset #638 - CADV AC Ace (from Venezula)
Post by: pnegyesi on June 05, 2013, 01:47:59 PM
CADV stands for Club Automovilístico de Venezuela. I don't think they modified this car. There's a very nice thread about this car in a forum on Venezuelan motorsport
Title: Re: SOLVED: Djetset #638 - CADV AC Ace (from Venezula)
Post by: Carnut on June 05, 2013, 02:25:30 PM
The plot thickens!
To respond to ropat53, Renny Ottolina was also driving an AC Ace Bristol entered by Equipo C.A.D.V. in the 1957 Venezuelan GP, but you can't tell if it's this one or another one.
Title: Re: SOLVED: Djetset #638 - CADV AC Ace (from Venezula)
Post by: ropat53 on June 05, 2013, 02:31:37 PM
CADV stands for Club Automovilístico de Venezuela. I don't think they modified this car. There's a very nice thread about this car in a forum on Venezuelan motorsport

I agree with pnegyesi CADV was a car club, the badge on the car was taken from the very few photos that exist and none in colour.
In that Venezuelan Motorsport forum Karl Penz (Pentz) is mentioned as presumably having modified the body.
I'm not after a point, because there is no way of being sure who made the body, that wasn't even part of the puzzle and the car is not known with that name.
Title: Re: SOLVED: Djetset #638 - CADV AC Ace (from Venezula)
Post by: Carnut on June 05, 2013, 02:50:44 PM
I'm hoping to get a definitive answer from the current owner of this car, if he responds to my email, as I know he is in possession of the details of its history.
Title: Re: SOLVED: Djetset #638 - CADV AC Ace (from Venezula)
Post by: Carnut on June 06, 2013, 04:29:52 AM
I'm hoping to get a definitive answer from the current owner of this car, if he responds to my email, as I know he is in possession of the details of its history.

I've now had a very helpful reply from the current owner of this car, BEX 148, which I can do no better than quote below to resolve all the questions regarding this car:

QUOTE
The car is a part of the first batch (of seven) Ace-Bristols shipped to the Venezuelan importer Juan 'Jack' Fernandez. All took to the race track.

Three of them were modified by a Caracas-based German artisan, Karl Pentz, in 1956. All were different, but Pentz clearly took his styling cues from the plethora of privateer sports racing Ferraris and Maseratis that filled the grids at the time.

BEX 148 belonged to Oscar Lupi, BEX 149 to Antonio Izquierdo and the third car belonged to Renny Ottolina; I'm not certain of the chassis number.

Alas, I know the Ottolina car was broken up, and I fear the same may have happened to BEX 149. The cars were very hard used on poor roads and there was little incentive in the 1960s to preserve worn out no longer competitive racing cars.
UNQUOTE

So the modifier was indeed Karl Pentz as suggested by ropat53, and I think the answer to the 'make of car' question should really still be AC and as the question of who modified the body was not part of the original question this puzzle was really answered in my Reply #43 on 4th June!  Clearly CADV could never been construed as the make!
Title: Re: SOLVED: Djetset #638 - CADV AC Ace (from Venezula)
Post by: Carnut on June 14, 2013, 06:37:15 PM
I really think ropat53 should get a point for correctly identifying who modified the bodywork of this AC.
Whilst I got a point and did identify the car as an original AC Ace Bristol, my identification of CADV as the modifier was not in fact correct according to information newly supplied by the current owner of the car.

The bodywork was, as ropat53 suggested, done by Karl Pentz.

What about a point for him Djetset?!
Title: Re: SOLVED: Djetset #638 - CADV AC Ace (from Venezula)
Post by: Carnut on June 03, 2022, 01:00:16 PM
This car is currently for sale at Pendine, Bicester Heritage.
Its descriptions says "Exported to Venezuela new where its first owner, Dr Oscar Lupi, had Karl Pentz modify the nose for improved performance. Raced extensively in period, it was sympathetically restored by Winchester Motorsport in 2011 and has since been campaigned at events including the Goodwood Revival."

No price is mentioned, but it certainly won't be cheap (a pile of rusty AC Ace bits, minus the chassis and suspension, sold at auction recently for £202,500! It wasn't even a car, just a load of bits...)