Author Topic: MPC#026 - Solved - Fletcher Air Borne  (Read 1228 times)

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Offline Iluvatar

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MPC#026 - Solved - Fletcher Air Borne
« on: September 23, 2013, 06:37:57 AM »
Identify this car for one point!
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 07:55:36 AM by Iluvatar »
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Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2013, 08:14:13 AM »
Repost!  ;)
(Try to search it with a dot after each letter... ;D )

Offline Iluvatar

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2013, 02:26:05 PM »
Repost!  ;)
(Try to search it with a dot after each letter... ;D )
Thanks... picture changed!
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 02:28:09 PM by Iluvatar »
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Offline Iluvatar

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2013, 08:51:10 AM »
Up!
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Offline Bill Murray

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2013, 09:39:05 AM »
I hope I am answering the correct puzzle photo.

What is here is a Fletcher "Flair" Jeep made in cooperation with Porsche.

Apparently one still exists or perhaps this is the only one.  Here is another photo.

Edit:  A little more research............  Built in 1953, one only so this is the original prototype.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 09:46:57 AM by Bill Murray »
Cheers
Bill

Offline Iluvatar

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2013, 04:17:37 PM »
I hope I am answering the correct puzzle photo.

What is here is a Fletcher "Flair" Jeep made in cooperation with Porsche.

Apparently one still exists or perhaps this is the only one.  Here is another photo.

Edit:  A little more research............  Built in 1953, one only so this is the original prototype.
Indeed the picture showed a Fletcher prototype... (the Flair is in fact a repost...) but the car in my picture has two main differeces from the prototype you posted, and I have another name for it (not "Flair").
I don't know if my name is correct... but can you find me these two differences to gain the point?
LOCKED for you!
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Offline Bill Murray

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2013, 05:43:39 PM »
The vehicle was a proposal by Fletcher Aviation, built by them essentially on their own funds as a proposal to the US Army as an  amphibious sort of 4x4 Jeep type vehicle.

As such, it was delivered to the US Army in the form they thought might be of interest, including the front mounted spare wheel and tyre and fairly simple "sheet metal" mudguards etc.

From what I can determine, the Army accepted the vehicle as it was supplied and then modified it somewhat, moving the spare wheel and tyre to the rear and simplifying the "sheet metal", as you can see from the two photos.  I cannot determine if Fletcher made these modifications on behalf of the Army or if the Army workshops did the work themselves.

In the event, the vehicle was considered not suitable, with many performance shortcomings, and the program did not progress further.

In theory, it should have been assigned an "XM" number by the US Army which designated it as an experimental vehicle but I can find no such vehicle in my list of "XM" numbers.

It is also possible that Porsche assigned some sort of name or number to the vehicle as they were a participant to some degree in the design but I have not been able to make that connection so far.

Please let me know what further information you require.
Cheers
Bill

Offline Iluvatar

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2013, 05:55:56 PM »
The vehicle was a proposal by Fletcher Aviation, built by them essentially on their own funds as a proposal to the US Army as an  amphibious sort of 4x4 Jeep type vehicle.

As such, it was delivered to the US Army in the form they thought might be of interest, including the front mounted spare wheel and tyre and fairly simple "sheet metal" mudguards etc.

From what I can determine, the Army accepted the vehicle as it was supplied and then modified it somewhat, moving the spare wheel and tyre to the rear and simplifying the "sheet metal", as you can see from the two photos.  I cannot determine if Fletcher made these modifications on behalf of the Army or if the Army workshops did the work themselves.

In the event, the vehicle was considered not suitable, with many performance shortcomings, and the program did not progress further.

In theory, it should have been assigned an "XM" number by the US Army which designated it as an experimental vehicle but I can find no such vehicle in my list of "XM" numbers.

It is also possible that Porsche assigned some sort of name or number to the vehicle as they were a participant to some degree in the design but I have not been able to make that connection so far.

Please let me know what further information you require.
The info you tell me can be true, but are not what I'm looking for...
Indeed the B&W pic shows an earlier prototype, and this prototype has (or should have) two main differences. One you can see with your eyes, and one you have to found or guess because is not visible...
The name I have has nothing to do with XM... but I think it could be only a mistake and not the real name of the car...
I have another (earlier than 1953) year too...
Still locked...
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Offline Bill Murray

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2013, 07:41:26 PM »
The original question was "give a name to this car".

I believe I have done that and given quite a lot of additional information.

If this does not satisfy your requirements, please unlock the question and I will pass on it.
Cheers
Bill

Offline Iluvatar

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2013, 07:54:32 AM »
The original question was "give a name to this car".

I believe I have done that and given quite a lot of additional information.

If this does not satisfy your requirements, please unlock the question and I will pass on it.
Oooops sorry... I changed the picture but not the text of the first post...  :-[
I give you another chance, and the puzzle is still locked...
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Offline Iluvatar

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2013, 07:57:25 AM »
I believe I have done that and given quite a lot of additional information.
I have still another name for it... Fletcher "Xxx Xxxxx"
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Offline Bill Murray

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2013, 08:36:23 AM »
OK, let us try Fletcher 115 Flair.

As a further bit of information, the vehicle was returned to Fletcher after testing by the US Army and they kept it for many years.  At one point, they changed out the Porsche motor for a VW motor hoping to market it to the civilian market.

I can also mention that it used some sort of jet propulsion driven, I gather, off the engine fans to propel the vehicle in the water. 

Fairly recently, it found it's way to a well known Porsche restoration shop and is now either being restored or is perhaps already restored.

That is all I can tell you.

Bill
Cheers
Bill

Offline Iluvatar

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2013, 08:52:46 AM »
OK, let us try Fletcher 115 Flair.

As a further bit of information, the vehicle was returned to Fletcher after testing by the US Army and they kept it for many years.  At one point, they changed out the Porsche motor for a VW motor hoping to market it to the civilian market.

I can also mention that it used some sort of jet propulsion driven, I gather, off the engine fans to propel the vehicle in the water. 

Fairly recently, it found it's way to a well known Porsche restoration shop and is now either being restored or is perhaps already restored.

That is all I can tell you.

Bill

The name Flair is not in the name I have... and they are all letters...
But I don't think the name is the most important think... because I doubt the name I have is correct...
So I give you the point if you can tell me two differences between the puzzle prototype and the Flair you have posted.
One of the them you can see from the picture quite easily...


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Offline Carnut

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2013, 09:03:13 AM »
Are you a goal-poster mover by profession by any chance?!
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline WayneB

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2013, 01:27:46 PM »
Bill Murray has more patience than I have. :o

I don't even bother to reply to some of the puzzle posters who mess about even when I may know the answer.

This is supposed to be fun, not a mind numbing chore.

Offline fyreline

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2013, 01:52:52 PM »
x 2
"You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are NOT entitled to your own facts"

Offline Bill Murray

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2013, 04:41:44 PM »
Carnut/Wayneb/fyreline and of course Iluvatar:

I thank you three for your remarks and your "sympathy", but I am a mature (OLD) adult and I can usually advocate for myself.
As well, I have no interest nor desire to get in a pissing contest with anyone here on this Forum and I do recognize your other automotive history efforts, Iluvatar and I applaud them.

I think in this case, the broken link or whatever you wish to call it caused by posting a previous puzzle question may have led to some confusion and the original question never got properly posted and now we play a game of catch up which can be a bit tedious.  As Wayneb has experienced, I have had at least four instances in the past 3-4 months where the question kept getting changed as I would submit my answers and although I had answered the basic question it seemed there was no satisfying the original poster.  I have ceased even responding to questions asked by that type of poster.

Since I have a few minutes of quiet time, I will make some further remarks about this puzzle vehicle.

1.  The present puzzle photo shows what may be a "Concept" vehicle as opposed to the actual one off prototype supplied to the US Army at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds.

There are numerous differences between the puzzle photo and the one I posted (BTW, I did not know until after I had posted my reply that the same photo was posted by Carnut on the other quiz).

2.  The body has been changed considerably, I have mentioned the changed out body panels, the moving of the spare wheel and tyre to the rear and the change from civilian wheels and tyres to military wheels and tyres.

3.  Obvious other external changes are the configuration change from three rows of seats to two rows of seats, due to the changing of the spare tyre location

4. The location of the mounting of the windscreen was changed from the back of the cowl to the front. and the headlamps are mounted slightly higher.

5.  The body sides are raised on the military prototype compared to the earlier photo.

As to what changes may exist that one cannot see, I have absolutely no idea.  I did mention the change of engines from Porsche to VW but that seems to have occurred later and I assume was done on the military prototype.  Perhaps it started out with a VW engine, that got changed to a Porsche engine when sent to the Army and then later changed again.

Sadly, while there are a few photos of the original car on the Internet as used in this puzzle, there is literally no information about it except the name without me using SBI to find some obscure reference photo.  There are multiple photos of the actual US Army prototype and several well written articles about both the company and the hlstory of the Fletcher 115 Flair on the Internet and I have used all of those references I could find plus one excellent book I have on the History of US Wheeled Military Vehicles.

All that being said, Iluvatar, I rest my case.  3 hours research and multiple posts are enough for me my friend.

Bill
Cheers
Bill

Offline Iluvatar

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2013, 07:57:13 AM »
I understand your disappointment... and I'm sorry for that...
In fact this puzzle is a repost, except for the fact that it has some differences from the well known Flair...
The picture I posted came from an period italian magazine, and that's why I don't trust entirely the name I've found... it could be a misunderstanding of the informations by the italian journalist...
I've found on the web informations about an earlier prototype, described as "6 Passenger Flair, rear wheel drive only, amphibious
vehicle prior to the 4 wheel drive, 4 place unit" and I guess this is the puzzle car, and "6 place and RWD" are the two characteristics I was looking for...

So... I give you a point for the correct identification of the car...
...but I still leave this puzzle open to everyone who want to find the name given to this car in the italian article I have...
"Xxx Xxxxx"
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Offline WayneB

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2013, 08:57:12 PM »
All I could find was that its an aluminium 6 passenger 1950 Porsche Jeep prototype made by Fletcher in California.



Offline Bill Murray

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2013, 07:19:00 AM »
Well Friends, it is a very slow Saturday morning here in my country on the Forum as it usually is this time of the week

I had a little time and came up with one more thought.

An old definition of the word "Fletcher" in English is "A man who makes arrows".
The Italian word for arrow is "Freccia" which is pretty close.

Could the two words you are looking for be a translation from Italian "La Freccia", I suppose, to the English "The Arrow"??

Obviously I am a bit bored this morning but I am trying to stay in good spirits on this one.
Cheers
Bill

Offline Iluvatar

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2013, 07:21:58 AM »
All I could find was that its an aluminium 6 passenger 1950 Porsche Jeep prototype made by Fletcher in California.
Yes, those could be the correct informations about the car...
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Offline Iluvatar

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2013, 07:22:53 AM »
An old definition of the word "Fletcher" in English is "A man who makes arrows".
The Italian word for arrow is "Freccia" which is pretty close.

Could the two words you are looking for be a translation from Italian "La Freccia", I suppose, to the English "The Arrow"??
No, the name has nothing to do with the name Fletcher...
It's Axx Bxxxx...
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Offline Bill Murray

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2013, 08:33:05 AM »
A rather silly question perhaps, but are the two words in English or Italian?
Cheers
Bill

Offline Iluvatar

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2013, 08:41:14 AM »
A rather silly question perhaps, but are the two words in English or Italian?
English... (but it's not so silly...  ;) )
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Offline WayneB

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Re: MPC#026
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2013, 09:10:51 AM »
An old definition of the word "Fletcher" in English is "A man who makes arrows".
The Italian word for arrow is "Freccia" which is pretty close.

Could the two words you are looking for be a translation from Italian "La Freccia", I suppose, to the English "The Arrow"??
No, the name has nothing to do with the name Fletcher...
It's Axx Bxxxx...


Is the first word Jet?